Phew! We are almost to the return to the present day and the cathartic battle scenes! But first, the last bit of sad. And a subtle call back to something way way way way way back at the beginning of the film (part 19 here, you can crawl back from there)
Previously in Bahubaliland, all was darkness and horribleness. Ramya, the Queen, ordered her faithful servant Kattappa to kill her son Prabhas because she thought Prabhas was trying to kill her other son, Rana. Kattappa did it, although it broke his heart, since Prabhas was like a son to him. And then after the killing he was surprised by the arrival of Rana, to gloat of the body and in so doing, reveal that this was his plan all along and Prabhas was innocent. Kattappa, shocked at what he has done, goes back Ramya and confronts her with their shared guilt. Ramya collapses in grief and guilt, all her motherly emotions she had been hiding finally bursting furth.
Okay, I honestly don’t remember the next sequence of events. It is all very rapid and confused. Rana is there, and Anushka bursts in, and then Rana and Nassar are ordering Ramya around, and the people are outside, and Ramya makes an announcement and leaves with baby Prabhas 2, with Kattappa helping her. But I just have flashes of moments. I think maybe because everyone is so disconnected from each other?
Not as a flaw of the script, but a realistic touch. When disaster strikes, everyone does kind of retreat to their own little world. Ramya is lost, lost in her memories of Prabhas’ youth, her mind snapped. Kattappa is lost as well, dead inside now that he has nothing left to live for, both his loyalty to Ramya shaken by her gross error, and the one person he let himself love, Prabhas 1, now gone. Rana is in the midst of his psychotic break, finally allowing all his damage to fly free in the world. And Nassar is Nassar, he’s always been horrible.
Speaking of Rana and Nassar, there was a thought I thought and then forgot (hey! A poem!). Anyway, now I have remembered it. Nassar’s disability has always been a fine line in the film. Write from the moment he was introduced, Kattappa says in voice over that he was born disabled, but that is not why he was never king. Prabhas -1 picked Prabhas 0 as king, because Nassar’s mind was diseased, not his body. And it was this weakness of mind which made him obsess over the mistaken belief that it was only his body that lost him the crown. Because he could better accept that then the truth.
The Hindi subtitles didn’t really make that clear, and there were various think pieces which apparently missed the point, so Rajamouli made it even clearer in this one, Kattappa has a whole big speech saying “Listen, Bozo, stop saying it’s because of your physical disability! You are a terrible person and that has nothing to do with your weak arm!” But Nassar doesn’t get it.
Now, Rajamouli is going at it a different way. Nassar’s weak arm was a sign of his weakness. Not a sign from God, but a sign from the narrator. Just like the bindi/tilak on everyone’s forehead helps you recognize who is who and what is their essential character. And the streak of grey in the hair, a beard, a beaded chain, it all has a meaning to help the audience follow the story. Nassar’s arm doesn’t say “all disabled people are evil”, it says “this person is evil and to help you remember that we have given him a weak arm.”
Now, Rana didn’t have a visible sign of his weakness, his illness. He was seemingly tall and strong and perfect. That’s what everyone believed up until this moment. Even his father, I don’t think fully understood how damaged Rana is. It was that moment when he killed Subbaraju, killed the alternative self, the good part of himself, that was the real turning point. And to mark that, he marked himself. He used Prabhas’ knife to cut into his face the ugliness he felt inside, a visible mark of how he was just “wrong”. In case we didn’t get it with Nassar, now we are really really seeing it, Rana’s inner madness comes before his physical, not the other way around.
Ever since that moment, more and more Rana has been revealing his madness. It’s like the slash on his face opened up a gap and now his inner torment is leaking out all over the place. Kattappa got a front row seat to it, and now Ramya is seeing it. Only, not really, because like I said, she is still lost in her grief,
What breaks her out of it is Anushka, running in with baby Prabhas 2. I said back in my very first review that this is a movie about two women. And that is so clear in this scene. All the pivotal moments were between the two women more than anyone else. The first throne room scene, when Anushka is the first person to disagree with Ramya and to win the greater battle against her, convincing her son to leave her side. And in the second scene, when Ramya tries to get her revenge and just sends her son father away. And between that, the baby shower scene, Anushka conquers her again. But now, at the end, Ramya finally accepts the defeat she was handed in their first meeting but refused to accept.
Anushka didn’t just “win Prabhas” in that first meeting, she won everything he represents, Justice and Power and just over all right-ness. Not through her womanly wiles, but because she was more just and fair and right than Ramya in every way, and therefore has naturally taken Ramya’s place as the strong guiding light of Mahishmati/Prabhas. Ramya has been denying and resisting this all along, but now, finally, she has to acknowledge the truth. That Anushka didn’t “trick” Prabhas, and that Prabhas wasn’t corrupted by her. Anushka was herself and Prabhas was the same noble man she knew, and he chose Anushka because she was better than Ramya.
That is what shocks Ramya out of her grief. Seeing the woman coming in who, finally, she recognizes as her other self. They may have their differences in how they see the world, in their temperaments, in their ethics. But they both truly loved Prabhas, and they both are good strong women trying to survive in a difficult world and make it a little better. All the things we knew about Anushka must come rushing back to her at this moment. If Prabhas was never rebelling, never trying to get the throne, that means that Anushka married him out of true love, went with him into exile happily, spoke up in his defense because she saw him being abused, has suffered and remained faithful where Ramya has failed.
Anushka represents both the greatest sin Ramya has committed, the person whose life has been completely destroyed by her actions. And also the woman she should have been, could have been if she had remained true to her heart and let it be her guide. It’s no wonder that when she comes rushing in, Ramya ignores everything else happening in the room and zeros in on her.
I don’t remember if Ramya actually tells her Prabhas is dead, or someone else does, or Anushka just knows. But again, we don’t need the dialogue to know that. It’s all there in the gestures and the expressions.
Anushka does a fabulous job in this scene. Her face tells us how she is feeling, and it isn’t sad or angry, it’s straight up panic. She knows, for sure, that Prabhas 1 would have returned to her as soon as he could, that there is nothing that could have kept him from her side. And so something must have gone terribly terribly wrong.
Beyond her face, her posture is amazing. She is walking and holding her newborn, but she is walking broad-legged, clutching her belly, hunched over, with pain on her face. This isn’t one of those heroines who gives birth and runs a marathon (Bunty Aur Babli, I’m looking at you). But she also isn’t a heroine who gives birth and then slowly fades away (like Prabhas 1’s mother did). Her inner spirit is still there and her body is strong, and it is managing to combat the pain which is screaming at her until she can do what she needs to do, somehow drag herself to the palace, carrying her child with her, and demanding answers.
(I love this movie, but the ending is, just, no)
But once she gets there, and learns the truth (however it happened), she can’t keep standing, the adrenaline which has kept her on her feet has run out, and she sags to the ground. Not in an elegant princess like graceful fall, but a collapse. And that is when Ramya is shocked out of her stillness and slowly goes to her, on her knees, and slides her hand, still bloodied with Prabhas 1’s blood passed on to her by Kattappa, onto Anushka’s foot.
This is as close as we are going to get to a “happy ending” in the flashback. Or, maybe not “happy ending”, but closure. Ramya in one gesture is admitting both her guilt in all that has gone wrong for the past year, and that Anushka is the better woman. Which by extension raises Prabhas back to his former position in her eyes, since he chose a good woman as his wife. But it’s small comfort, both for the audience and Anushka, considering that she has just lost her husband in the cruelest way, and is now alone in the world with a teeny-tiny baby to take care of.
Rana interrupts even this small moment between them, telling, or rather, ordering his mother to go outside and speak to the people, tell them that Prabhas 1 is dead. The people have gathered in the palace courtyard, they must have sensed something is wrong. I wonder how much time is supposed to be passed? Kattappa certainly wasn’t rushing back, and Anushka really wasn’t rushing. But if everyone knew that Anushka was in labor, knew that Prabhas left with his sword, and knew that he didn’t come back, well, that would be enough to start rumors.
Rana ordering Ramya here, that’s another sign of his madness slipping free. He has hated his mother at least since that moment she tried to buy his forgiveness with gifts. And now, now he doesn’t bother to hide it, glorying in her weakness, in his ability to order her around. This is his idea of a perfect world. He is in charge, the women are broken and miserable on the floor, Kattappa is meek and silent, and Nassar is triumphing in the background.
But, like all chauvinists, his fatal flaw is that he underestimates women. Ramya seems dazed, she is holding the baby that Anushka has passed to her, Rana has told her to announce Prabhas death and then they will kill the baby. But as she exits, Ramya pulls inside and finds some deep well of strength, and after announcing Prabhas 1’s death, she lifts up the baby in her arms, seeming almost possessed in her surety of her choice, even more sure than when she announced Prabhas 1, and declares that this baby, Prabhas 2, is the new ruler of Mahishmati!!!!
And suddenly the kingdom is put right, in its own way, has a fraction of hope to keep it alive. And Kattappa, as the spirit of Mahishmati, has a small fraction of strength again. He has something to believe in, Ramya has redeemed herself. And he has something to fight for, this baby that is all that is left of the only person who ever truly loved him and who he truly loved (yes, Anushka is there too, but their bond isn’t the same as what he had with Prabhas 1). And so the two of them together, Ramya and Kattappa, put out their one last fight. Ramya takes the baby and Kattappa holds off the men. Ramya takes a moment to beg Anushka to come with her, and Anushka sends her off, telling her that if she wants to redeem herself, she must save this baby.
Way way back in my first post on B1, I talked about how that opening image is so resonate on a deep level. Any time there is danger, we want to send away our children first. You don’t need to know a lot of background, you just need to see an older woman trying to take a baby to safety, and you know that the parents have been lost, somewhere, but have tried to send their child forward to a better life. And now we get to see that moment. Anushka is doing the hardest and best thing a mother can do, giving up her child for a better life, sacrificing her own future so that her child can have a better one.
And she is giving Ramya the greatest possible trust you can ever give another person, the safety of your child. To Anushka, this baby isn’t “the future of Mahishmati”, it is something much greater, it is the little child she has just given birth to, just met for the first time, and the last remaining piece of the husband she has lost forever, and she is trusting all of that to Ramya’s keeping. And Ramya knows it, because this is not the first time she has taken up such a trust. Prabhas 1’s mother didn’t live long enough to talk to Ramya, to give her this trust in person. But Ramya, having just given birth herself at that moment, would have understood. Would know that she died in fear for her son’s future, and that Ramya owed it to her, and to this baby, to raise it well. And Ramya has betrayed that trust. Now she is being given another chance, by another mother who has no reason to trust her and yet is, and Ramya cannot fail.
Kattappa cannot fail either. And so he digs deep and finds one more moment of strength. Sweeping obstacles from in front of Ramya so she can escape (great moment of visual pun, him taking the door from his hinges to use as a barricade to push men aside, “opening the door” for Ramya).
And now a brief detour to Russia! Chekhov, brilliant Russian playwright, had a saying about how to write a play. He said, “If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don’t put it there.” Chekhov was talking from the perspective of a writer, he was saying that you shouldn’t include anything extraneous in your play. But the concept has been simplified in media writing to be simply “Chekhov’s Gun”. As in, any time the writer draws your attention to something in particular, you the viewer/reader/listener can be sure that it will be important later.
It was done so well in this film that I hardly noticed it, but way way way back at the beginning, in that scene when Ramya tried to buy Rana’s loves with gifts, she gave him a bow and described it as specially made so that it would be accurate at even 50 yards. And then 2 hours of other stuff happened. And now, at the end, thanks to Kattappa’s help Ramya was able to get out of the palace and down to the grounds. She, and the baby, are about to step into a small boat when Rana pulls out his bow, this same bow, and takes aim, and fires, hitting her in the back and sending both her and the baby to sink into the water. Ramya’s guilt, her indulgence of Rana, it has literally killed her. She handed him the bow that let him do it. And remember this bow, because this is not the last we see of it!
(Not this bow, but one that looks a lot like it)
Once Ramya “dies”, it all goes bad very quickly. Kuntala is burned. I was talking with Apu and Avani in the comments about this, about how Anushka’s brother went from a happy gentle ruler to the harsh leader of a rebel band. We only get one quick glimpse of him, but I think it tells us all we need to know. He, and I think his wife, are in the mountains watching Kuntala burn. They are in fine clothing, not armor, and it is torn and dirtied. And they are clutching and comforting small children, in the same fine clothes.
I think we can see that the attack came so swiftly they didn’t even have time to put on armor. Rather than attempt to fight back, they focused on saving what they could, taking the children and getting out. And not their children, we never saw anything that would imply they had children. But these aren’t orphans either, or weren’t orphans until now. Just like Ramya and Prabhas 2, they have been giving the great responsibility of saving the children of parents’ who sacrificed themselves so their children might life.
That is the kind of responsibility that could change a man from what we saw in the past to what he became 25 years later. Taking these children and teaching them to be hard and prepared, so they will not meet the fate of their parents. Slowly gathering more children to him, as more parents die or send them there for safety. Seeing that every moment of weakness has lead to another death. And seeing his own weaknesses, that he can never be the leader they need, that his sister has to return if the kingdom will ever survive, if these children he has taught to kill and hate will ever be free.
Jumping ahead slightly, I think we all know that this character will never have a happy ending. He has been too lost for too long to ever come back to peace. And he knows that too. He gathers with him the children of the country, because they are the ones who have hope, who can move forward. It is too late for him.
But it is not too late for everybody. Which brings us back to the present! THANK GOODNESS! The present, where the resilience of youth tells them that they can do anything, that they can conquer, that things will be bright and better again.
dontcallitbollywood 
Beautiful explanation of Rana making a scar mark on himself, and about bindi/tilak reflecting characters!
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Thank you!
On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:31 PM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Anushka doesn’t put condition that Ramya must save the baby if she wants to redeem herself. She says that if Prabhas 2 survives it is as good as Prabhas 1 lives on….its like an old saying that a father lives through his children and grand children…. sort of immortality…
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Interesting shading. So it’s not about Ramya proving herself, Anushka doesn’t even care about that, she is just giving her orders related to the baby they both love.
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:12 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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I love the scene where Katappa shows Ramya his bloodied hands and tells her very matter of factly “This is Baahubali’s blood.” and then, he rubs some of it on her hand to tell her that her hands have been bloodied too. He then tells Ramya that she has made a mistake and that even in the last moments of his life, Prabhas1 only wanted one thing – to make sure that amma is safe. He then tells her how she was mistaken about Rana and after this, Anushka comes rushing in. Katappa tells Anushka that the same hands which were supposed to hold their child for the first time had been used to kill her husband. Rana and Nasser then come in and Nasser tells Ramya to kill the child because if she didn’t, he would grow up to be the one to question her about his father’s death. She goes to Anushka and falls at her feet and asks her to forgive her for being wrong. She acknowledges that Anushka was the greater of the two of them for knowing Prabhas1’s true worth. Rana then tells Ramya that the kingdom was in uproar as they didn’t know what was happening and that they would accept that Prabhas1 was dead if she told them. Which is when she turns to look at him with such horror and hatred and anger that Rana and Nasser recoil from the force if it. She then picks up the baby and goes out onto the balcony and declares that Prabhas1 is dead and that Prabhas2 is now the new king. She comea back in and orders Katappa to get the courtiers and ministers etc togther because the wrongdoers (while looking at Rana) need to be killed. Katappa agrees and just as he is about to leave to do her bidding, Rana tells her that did she think he was stupid enough not to take some measures of his own when he knew that she easily believed that her beloved son was guilty of a crime he would never commit – he asks her how she thought that he would assume that she would forgive him in this case (goes to show how wily and cunning he is!). Rana’s henchmen come running in, Katappa pushes Rana out of the way and asks Ramya to follow him. Ramya turns to Anushka to help her up and asks her to hurry. Anushka falls back down and tells Ramya to save her son instead as it would be akin to saving her husband. Anushka then turns to the baby and asks him to make her vow that he would return to her and to the people of Mahismathi. The baby makes the vow. 🙂 Ramya gets up and runs out the secret passage with the baby and jams the lock with a knife. Nasser tells Rana that she is getting away which is when he walks out onto the balcony and uses the bow she gave him to shoot an arrow in her back (just like how he had Prabhas1 killed!). Anushka comes running out onto the balcony and this is when Rana tells her that everyone she loves was dead and now she has only him to love and hate (creepy dude!).
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Well no wonder I didn’t remember all of that, it’s really really sad! Except for the baby making the vow, that’s great. Makes me think of 24, where our fully grown hero ends up inside the consciousness of a tiny baby and then just kind of stays there forever.
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:24 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Both of you missed a small bit, Raja tells Ramya, “you go out and calm the people(by announcing Amarendra’s death) & I will take care of him(baby Mahendra)”
He is saying all this in a cold-blooded calculated way (without wearing any headgear which makes him more human but also reveals his cold-bloodedness). This cool attitude is in total contrast to the mad behavior at Amarendra’s death (where he was wearing the crown)
Ramya, is shellshocked when she hears her son say that he will “take care” of baby mahendra and then she comes out and when she announces Amarendra’s death the shot from below doesn’t clearly show that she has baby with her. Then she raises the baby up (against backdrop of fire) and announces the name of the baby for first time and he is also the new king.
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Oh yes! Both the death and birth of a king happens with fire in the background.
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Right! I remember this slight moment of “wait, where’s the baby?” just before that. Not like i was worried about it, just the transition was confusing so you weren’t sure for a moment who was holding it just then. So there could be the reveal of Ramya’s decision.
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:24 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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I don’t think it is the same bow. The bow she gave him have white detailings on it. The one he uses here is fully black.
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I was confused for a second when I saw “Prabhas -1” 🙂
Kattappa tells Anushka by saying something to the extent of “You gave me the position of your father but I ended up killing your husband”
I am like 75% sure that the bow Rana used was not the same bow that Ramya gave him. I just came back from watching Baahubali 2 a third time and this was one of the things I looked out for. The bow that Ramya gives Rana is silver and gold but the one that Rana uses is black.
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I too think those two bows are different. Rana rejected the bow given by Ramya. So logically it should not be with Rana. He used his bow that was handed over by his soldier.
But I agree to Chekhov’s theory that in the begining of the movie a bow was shown by Ramya and in the end a bow was used on Ramya.
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And there was also the specific line about a bow that could be accurate at great distances, another way in which, even if it isn’t the same bow (which I really think it is!), the idea was planted for the audience that Rana in particular might use a weapon that travels farther than you would think possible.
Which also picks up on the general theme of Rana, that his attacks come from behind and from so far, you don’t think it could be him doing it. Shooting his mother in the back from 50 feet away, setting up a fake assassination attempt on himself, messing with Prabhas 1’s romance all the way in Kuntala, all these things seem like they are too distant to be coming from Rana.
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:52 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Yes, that makes it seem like it should be the same bow but my problem is that they don’t look similar at all. I guess it did look different in the depressing lighting, but that’s not really convincing enough
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I may want to start using the numbers system to describe my own family relationships, “that piano is an inheritance from Margaret -2, and the shelves came from Margaret -3”. Way easier than figuring out how many “great”s to use.
I did miss Katappa putting the baby’s foot on his head, which is another great non-verbal moment that tells you all you need to know. And the little hand slap vow from the baby (that poor baby! So much happening on his very first day).
I’m sticking with my “it’s the same bow!” theory. Maybe it just looked different in the depressing lighting?
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:32 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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I’m with you mredlich21. I’m going to argue it is the same bow as well. Just because he rejected it in the initial scene doesn’t mean he wouldn’t use it against the very mother who gifted it to him. That’s the two-faced nature of our Bhallal beast.
I personally found this last scene to be shot so well. Everyone was just in perfect form (even Devasena who hasn’t impressed me much throughout the film). But, Sivagami’s eyes, Kattappa’s anger, Bhallal/Bijjal’s cunning streak, and poor, poor baby Baahu. But, the momentum of the scene was one of the best.
Random q: when Bhallal says to Devasena he’s all she’s got…was this alluding to the time-honoured tradition of a widow marrying her brother-in-law when he husband dies? Reason I ask is why didn’t he banish her back to Kuntala? He was never in love with her. She was merely a pawn to use in his strategy against Amarendra. Wonder if SSR wrote the line implying she was now his to do with whatever he wants. His obsession with owning her clearly grew as we saw in B2. I just didn’t get this line as she still had her family technically speaking. But, in India, when widowed, you are considered property of your in-laws. By this assumption, he was free to do whatever he wished with her.
One more note – in the last scene, Bhallal’s line to Sivagami is actually: “the villagers are screaming like lambs. YOU need to go tell them and I’ll deal with the baby.” The fact he uses the word lamb (bukhara) shows how truly he doesn’t see his subjects as people, but as animals. Such a brilliant stroke of genius in the dialogue here.
It was these moments of great scripting I enjoyed.
FYI to all – folks are uploading B2 to YT, though the vids get deleted every few days. I’ve been catching some of the finer points made by the fabulous avani, apu, subhash, etc. online.
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I’m with you mredlich21. I’m going to argue it is the same bow as well. Just because he rejected it in the initial scene doesn’t mean he wouldn’t use it against the very mother who gifted it to him. That’s the two-faced nature of our Bhallal beast.
I personally found this last scene to be shot so well. Everyone was just in perfect form (even Devasena who hasn’t impressed me much throughout the film). But, Sivagami’s eyes, Kattappa’s anger, Bhallal/Bijjal’s cunning streak, and poor, poor baby Baahu. But, the momentum of the scene was one of the best.
Random q: when Bhallal says to Devasena he’s all she’s got…was this alluding to the time-honoured tradition of a widow marrying her brother-in-law when he husband dies? Reason I ask is why didn’t he banish her back to Kuntala? He was never in love with her. She was merely a pawn to use in his strategy against Amarendra. Wonder if SSR wrote the line implying she was now his to do with whatever he wants. His obsession with owning her clearly grew as we saw in B2. I just didn’t get this line as she still had her family technically speaking. But, in India, when widowed, you are considered property of your in-laws. By this assumption, he was free to do whatever he wished with her.
One more note – in the last scene, Bhallal’s line to Sivagami is actually: “the villagers are screaming like lambs. YOU need to go tell them and I’ll deal with the baby.” The fact he uses the word lamb (bukhara) shows how truly he doesn’t see his subjects as people, but as animals. Such a brilliant stroke of genius in the dialogue here.
It was these moments of great scripting I enjoyed.
FYI to all – folks are uploading B2 to YT, though the vids get deleted every few days. I’ve been catching some of the finer points made by the fabulous avani, apu, subhash, etc. online.
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Love that note about the “lambs”! It also shows how he sees Ramya, someone to keep these animals in line while he does the real work.
I can see the point about Indian widows, but I don’t know if it is the specific “marry the brother” tradition, or the more general idea that is related to it, that she has no place in her original family anymore. All along we’ve been talking about how Prabhas 1 made this Big Vow to her which seemed like it gave an uneven power dynamic, but really it just corrected the dynamic, because as a woman, she had no power. Her mast was clipped as soon as they entered Mahishmati. No matter how much she spoke up and tried to be strong, in Mahishmati she was just Prabhas 1’s wife, and now that he has gone, she has no protection in this household. And no possibility of being able to return home.
It reminded me a lot of classic films like Phool Aur Patthar or Prem Ganth or Anamika, that show the tortures a widow can face at the hands of her husband’s relatives. And, like here, her best protection is supposed to be either her son, or her mother-in-law/sister-in-law, and Anushka has just lost both.
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Lol, but do you all look the same like the Prabhas lineage 🙂
Right! The baby also ends up falling in the water with Ramya and eventually travels down the river near the water fall. He had a crazy first day. Also did you think the moment when Ramya announces Mahendra Baahubali as the king was really similar to Lion King?
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that’s what one of my friends said! But not about this scene, afterwards when Prabhas 2 is rallying people to go take back Mahishmati/Pride Rock. And then I pointed out that really that would mean it is about Hamlet. Which would then mean Haider. and now I kind of want to do a movie night comparing B2 with Haider and seeing how similar they are!
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 11:51 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Oh that’s interesting. Now I really feel like rewatching the Lion King. I don’t think I’ve seen it in like over ten years. It used to be my favorite movie as a kid 🙂
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Prabhas-1 makes me giggle because it’s probably true for this family with its insanely strong genes ; plus you would expect them not to have any trouble deterring this succession, because they could just go, “Oh, this baby has some definite Prabhas-Ian features, he will probably be a wise noble king” versus “Ulp, this kid looks like someone else, definitely a psychopath!” (….or you could make rude inferences about Nasser’s paternity and conclude that’s REALLY why he wasn’t given the throne 😉
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Hahhahahhahaha! Prabhas-ian features!😂 Just read the joke about how Baahubali was actually the first man to land on the moon. NASA just used his English name – Armstrong. I rofl a lot with that one. What a stroke of genius!
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Clearly one of the Hamsa Naava deleted scenes we missed!
(Hadn’t heard that joke before, but that’s brilliant! :D)
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Good Joke!
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Maybe Prabhas-1’s wife was really really evil, and that’s where Nassar’s features/personality came from?
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 6:34 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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In the book prabhas-1 wife is pictured as a very domineering woman of whom both her some are afraid off. So I guess some of here genes most have passed to bijjala.
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Prabas 0 & prabas -1 had names that ended with Deva (Vikrama Deva) like Bijjala Deva, Ballala Deva & Bhadra Deva.
When prabas 1 is born he tugs very hard with his tiny index finger on Ramya’s hands, so she breaks tradition & names him as Baahubali (Jain god with Very strong hands) Amarendra means immortal btw.
When Ramya takes baby prabas2 out to the balcony his name has not been decided yet and she chooses same surname Baahubali for son also, maybe to form a connection with people for the new prince?
Mahendra means Shiva (god who lives in mountains, I think)
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My petty head canon is that Mahendra was the name that Prabhas and Anushka had already picked out for their kid….and Ramya….somehow knew….despite simple logic and what we see in the movie suggesting otherwise. I just don’t feel like after all she has done, Ramya deserves to get to name the kid! (And Anushka misses out on so much with Prabhas 2, I hate that she doesn’t get any input even with the name!)
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I agree, she really doesn’t deserve to name the kid.
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That makes sense as Anushka calls him Mahendra just before Ramya takes him away. Oh that was maybe because she heard Ramya scream it out on the balcony?
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Yeah, that happens after Ramya announces his name to the people.
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Anushka seems so comfortable calling him Mahendra too, instead of being like, “Mahendra? Really? That’s what you’re going with?”
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Personally, I don’t like Mahendra for a baby. Just too long, you know? You’d need a smaller name to call him until he gets bigger. Although if it is a name for Shiva, maybe they would have ended up with “Shivu” anyway? You could call him “Bhalla”, like his father, but then you get into the whole “Big Bhalla” “Little Bhalla” confusing.
This is what I would have contributed if the name was chosen by the parents during a regular discussion, instead of suddenly announced out of nowhere by the baby’s grandmother.
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:48 PM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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“You could call him “Bhalla”, like his father, but then you get into the whole “Big Bhalla” “Little Bhalla” confusing.”
Don’t you mean Baahu?
Also Mahendra could be shortened to Mahi. Isn’t that what they call Dhoni?
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Yes, Baahu! See, this is why I use actors’ names. Characters confuse me.
I suppose Mahi could work. Still doesn’t seem very “baby” to me, I like Shivu better.
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Maybe it came up at the baby shower in a scene we didn’t see?
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 10:20 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Highly unlikely as there is a tradition of not choosing names (or doing anything baby related like buying clothes etc) till the baby is actually born. Its considered inauspicious.
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Maybe they did do that and that’s why all that terrible stuff happened after the baby shower?
On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 2:01 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Yikes!!!! Note to future parents everywhere!!!!
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Fascinating point! About the names. It’s also a sign of a new kind of identity, and ruler, one who is known more by what he is and what he does than his birthright. Prabhas 1 gets the name because of his strong arms, a feature of himself. And he then goes on to earn the name and be known by it because he is constantly using his arms, not just sitting around being “Deva” like, but going out there and doing things.
So naming his son that means that Ramya wants to carry on that tradition of doing rather than just being. Even if it is a little odd to name one baby based on a personality trait, and then name another baby the same thing as an inheritance trait. I wonder if the inevitable Prabhas 3 will have the Bahubali name, or will be named something individual to himself?
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:36 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Ooh, but Anushka’s name starts with the missing “Deva” though. A sign that Prabhas (either one, actually) can’t achieve his full kingly potential without her?
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Oooo! Or that the scriptwriter ran out of character names! But probably your thing.
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I actually really love her name! Devasena is a very South Indian name – it’s that of a goddess not really worshipped in the north (the wife of Kartikeya, commander-in-chief of the gods….oh, possible Prabhas 1 connection there) but also literally means “army of the gods,” suggesting that she is equivalebt to an army by herself.
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It also means that she is always fighting on the side of God, all her battles (whether verbal or physical or mental) are on the right side.
On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 9:49 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Ramya naming Prabhas 1, Amarendra (immortal) is kinda ironic seeing that she was the one who ordered him to be killed.
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We were talking earlier about how possibly “Mahendra” was a name that Anushka and Prabhas 1 had picked out already and Ramya somehow knew. That one is harder to believe, but I can absolutely believe that Prabhas 1’s mother had already picked out Amarendra and told Ramya. Considering she must have had a suspicion that she could die in childbirth, and her husband had recently died, it would make sense that she would choose “immortal” for her son.
Also, I think it’s really sad that the poor woman died and had no influence on her son’s life, so it kind of makes me happier to think that maybe she got to choose his name. And then Ramya added on the “Bahubali”.
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:09 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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See this rambo remake…
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See this rambo remake..
http://m.economictimes.com/magazines/panache/rambo-to-get-a-bollywood-remake-with-tiger-shroff-stallone-hopes-they-dont-wreck-it/articleshow/58763045.cms
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Oh shoot! I remember when this was first announced and that Siddharth Anand got the rights, I was really hoping it would be Hrithik in the lead. It would be such a perfect Hrithik role, very non-verbal.
Oh well, I’ll give Tiger a chance I guess.
On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:44 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Everyone on Twitter calling it as Rambo : The Musical.
He’s not that fit for this role.
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Last year, I saw reports that Sidharth Malhotra was going to do this movie. Tiger seems like a much better fit than Sidharth at least.
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True! We should count our blessings.
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My first reaction was: How will they ever replicate the political context? Rambo didn’t succeed just because it’s an action movie, or a war movie. It was specifically an attempt to rewrite recent American history and make Americans regain their former positive image of themselves. I feel sure all that will be completely missing.
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There might be a way to do it, if they set it in the aftermath of the 1962 war. But I don’t think Tiger Shroff is the star, or Siddharth Anand is the director, to pull that kind of thing off.
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Nope, not even then. There is simply no comparable self-image for Indians the way Americans had. If anything, Indians have been seeing themselves as losers for a long, long time, and they are only now just beginning to come out of that, but based more on economic development rather than military adventures.
But what I think is that the Hindi producers/director whoever purchased the remake rights, are not even aware that there was such a huge political/nationalistic component to what made the Rambo films such hits. (Actually the first Rambo was huge, but the sequels were not as big hits, because by then the national pride had been salvaged.) So I think they just looked at this as a big hit film that succeeded because of the action. It could still be successful in India, but just have no deeper resonance.
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Three things I would to call everyone’s attention to in this post. I hope admin notices these and include them in the next post.
1. When Rana and prabhas2 fight, prabhas2 is so beaten up and damaged but Rana isn’t scathed at all. Observe the fight carefully. Rana more or less close to killing prabhas2 but then a miracle happens. Prabhas2 places his hand on shiv lingams there at which point he also sprinkles that powder on himself to make himself non grippy. But after that the whole scene reverses. Rana’s weapon that never took a blow is now crushed inside with just one blow from prabhas2. Not just that but he gains huge strength all of a sudden.
2. Unlike the admin claims, nazar wasnt born with disability, at least according to books. He lost it much later. How? That’s connected to the two Shiva lingams connection I mentioned earlier. This is confirmed by the animated series on Amazon that explains Ramya going down the waterfall to worship Shiva lingams there where prabhas1 fights a crocodile. They are connected and well connected to the Demon statue that is burnt in the very beginning of saahore bahubali song. It is claimed to be in the middle of the forest. Why?
3. Notice that one shiv lingams is spatika, a kind of glass that is considered pure and is the most powerful of all Shiva lingams which is why they aren’t usually worshipped. This is kind of connected to why and how Nazar lost his arm and how both the brothers have so much super human demigod strength in them.
4. See the painting of Prabahs0, he holds that horse shape sword. If books are to be believed he got it from his ancestors and also the one who actually wields it is blessed with luck and wisdom. Also explains a LOT in final sequence of fight where they bounce of the trees to enter castle.
5. What exactly prompted katappa’s ancestors to be bound to royal family? We know his brother cheated and fled away from oath which also explains a LOT about Prabahs0 and his ancestors.
I would also like to bring to notice the coronation ceremony where the head priest announces all the kingdoms in the vicinity of mahismati and accepts it’s authority. You have to also notice the map of mahismati that is played even before credits roll in B1 in the jeevanadi song. It explains a LOT.
Also paccha botyesina/Panchi bole song actually happens in the ruins of Kuntala kingdom. We have to carefully observe the swans and symbols in the background. Which means Kuntala is a kind of winter kingdom, I guess, because of frequent fog in summer and frost in winter. It is high in the mountains explaining forests and greenery and the background and small kingdom and small buildings that are milky white, also explaining it’s not so mainstream habits or integrated into empire or its customs. We can see it’s mountainous terrain during Kuntala battle if we are keen on it.
My mom reckons there was perhaps a battle between Lord Shiva and a demon the forest. So when humans helped god in the battle he promised three things to humans and the kings of mahismati. 1. A celestial river 2. His own statues of power and magic 3. The sword that bahubali has. Books claim that Prabahs0 founded mahismati empire not mahismati town or city , making a ruling family. It says that katappa’s family served those on throne. Prabahs0 usurped a king who ruled before his dynasty with the help of Ramya’s father (who is later executed for treachery). Details are vague but there is more to this mahismati land than that meets the eye. The head priest we see in both movies that side with Rana and Bijjala is the one responsible for coup that we see in the first movie.
P.s. every shot and everything in bahubali including the kingdom itself and to the final shot of Shiva lingam having gold statue broken head falling from the top is not obvious at all – even the background music and the very song shivam explains the non obvious. They all have back stories and very interesting to explore.
I hope admin notices this and make some post on all these theories.
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Interesing points indeed!
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Woah! All this just took it to a whole other level!
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This is incredibly interesting- has the Amazon series started up yet? I’d love to check it out if it goes into the backstory of the kingdom! (Prabhas 0 was evil? So much for my theory of looking like Prabhas = automatically an awesome person.)
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Prabhas 0 was not evil according to the books. It was his father who had a dark secret which wasn’t yet revealed in the first book. Prabhas0 original name is mahadev I think. He is essentially a very soft spoken boy who is irrevocably in love with sivagami, the traitors daughter. He is also taunted by his elder brother as being a coward. But then towards the end of the book he does something courageous that he’s praised by everyone and given the title Vikrama Deva by his father. I think that was when he was chosen to be the next king if mahishmati
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Oh dear, I can feel a sad ending coming. For the books, I mean. I assume that the movie leaving the death of Prabhas 0 open and a bit of a mystery is going to play into a twist or big moment revealed in the books.
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:17 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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He’s said to be very creative and artistic. No wonder his grandson draws so well in the sand. 🙂
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That still bothers me!!!!! How could be be that accurate based on a mask?
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:44 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Maybe its a matter of him wanting her to look like that and the Universe conspired to make it happen? I could believe it considering what sort of a fellow Prabhas2 is – he’s so pure of heart (for lack of a better expression) that he can literally conjure up whatever he sees/thinks. I suppose its the whole do first/think later aspect of his character. Utmost belief with no doubts whatsoever.
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We could also see it as Tamannah’s essential character and essence pervading her mask, and Prabhas 2 being so sensitive to it that he is able to somehow “sense” what she is just from that. Similar to all those other heroes who fall in love with a scarf or a picture or a glimpse of a hand or something.
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:25 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Hhehe Prabhas -1 is the evil one.
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Interesting points!
It’s hard to know how to handle the additional novels and TV serials and all. Are they supposed to be “canon” or are they just sort of optional? I don’t really want to write on them at all until I read them myself, so don’t be surprised if I put comments in posts like “this may be covered in the novels” or “sheshankjoshi reported in the comments”, but I can’t truly get into it without being able to make my own judgement.
Just for example of what I am talking about, Disney announced recently that the entire Star Wars universe of novels, comic books, video games, and everything else for the past 40 years, is not “canon”, that is, just kind of thought experiments using the same characters, but not part of the story that the films are telling. I’m still not clear if the Bahubali novels are based on parts of the script or backstory that the film’s writer worked out, or if it is just a publishing deal and written by a random person based on what they watched in the films and imagined. If I should treat it as “true”, or just as a possible version that I can accept or reject.
1. I noticed that, but assumed it was just following the usual pacing of a fight scene, where the hero almost loses and then wins. And also gets his strength from something (God, memory of his mother, memory of his loved one, etc.). I will have to pay close attention when I get there and see if I can see a deeper meaning.
2. Once again, I’m going to have to wait until I am able to see/read for myself! I’m not sure if I like this change or not. I liked the idea of Prabhas 2 being raised in a place completely unconnected to Mahishmati, where no one from the kingdom had ever been before. Oh, and for Nassar’s disability, I’m going to have to go back to the first film and look at the wording carefully. I think it says that he was not allowed to be king because of his disability, which I assumed meant he was born with it and therefore taken out of the line of succession at birth, but it could just as easily have been later. Well, and also that kind of disability often is from birth. Or else childhood disease, not usually something that happens in an accident.
3. Neat! I wondered what it was supposed to made of.
4. That picks up a bit on what we have been talking about just based on the films. That the horse head sword seems to be Prabhas 1’s personal/ceremonial sword, something he inherited from his father, not something based on his position in the kingdom. And so he always carries it with him.
5. I noticed Kuntala on that map at the beginning of B1, only I just called it “Swan Kingdom”, because it just had a picture of a swan. It was right at the head of the waterfall, in the mountains, like you said. I assume, from the Pacha Bottasi song setting, that there were also some natural hot springs or pockets of protected growth. Which would give it the unique ability to be remote from the rest of the kingdom, but still self-supporting since even in colder months, it could grow some food.
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My theory might be wrong but considering/guessing this :
It is very clearly stated in B1 that Nazar is denied his crown not because he is disabled but because his mind is twisted. Notice that all that Ramya does in her 25 years is to prevent Nazar ascending the throne or gain power. He will simply stay the master of spies, a simple position that enables him to sit in the court.
I am afraid that Amazon prime has launched bahubali cartoon again explaining the childhood of the brothers. It is 22 min episode 1 . Proceed only if you don’t mind SPOILERS
In the episode 1 Ramya goes down the waterfall to worship shiv lingam there. It is said that Nazar is particularly prohibited from entering on the extremely unjust and silly grounds ( actual reason might be an incident I will comment later that so firmly put him off the throne) and he indicates his son the injustice done to them. While Ramya worships there a crocodile comes in and prabhas1 jumps in and draws it away but crocodile goes for prabhas1 instead. So prabhas1 breaks his hand ( I forgot what kind of injury) when kattappa comes in time and saves them killing crocodile. I forgot what dialogues were there but that prompts Ramya to go for next level of training for both her son’s and some noble children. She calls upon an elite old guru, who supposedly lives in a jungle close to pindaries, who also trained kattappa to train these chosen people. Prabhas1 and Rana join but the guru leaves the place for some duty they hear pindaries attack a nearby village prabhas1 goes to rescue while Rana says he needs to follow law as Kshatriya and wait for guru to arrive. All the kids split into two groups. One of the rana’s group claims ” we are asked not to leave so we should stay here for our safety and follow law” while other group claims ” it’s our duty to stop these kind of attacks”. So prabhas1 just rushes with his friends and Rana painfully follows. They steal the powerful weapons from the boundary and go on to attack. They are easily overpowered and their weapons are snatced. Rana’s group runs away to fetch army battalion nearby where their guru went while prabhas1 return back to not fight but protect people from the fires and rescue them. In the process they kick few butts and use fire to protect themselves. Meanwhile the army comes and pindaries flee. These are the same pindaries that later attacked Kuntala kingdom.
There is a royal enquiry about this whereby the laws are analyzed and revised, enquiries made. There is a twist in the end that really walks a step closer into how actually Rana’s mind and his political thoughts work. He actually manages to figure out that his father is denied kingdom despite his flaws is because he doesn’t go with flow and is so outspoken. We get to see his real avatar here. I haven’t seen second episode yet.
In my next comment I will provide my theory as to what might have happened to Bijjala hand earlier in his life.
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Fascinating how the idea of obeying Dharma and the greater good versus the law is introduced right from episode 1! That really is the lesson the filmmakers want the audience to get.
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My theory is this :
The guy that was protecting the shiv lingam down the waterfall (the priest in B1 when prabhas2 first lifts the statue) and the Prabahs0 and nazar in their teens couped together and did some experience with magic. (Books mention about a magic guy that is banished from kingdom for his magic by predecessors of Prabahs0. I am not sure both of them are the same).
I guess first the second or lower shiv lingam is also white and symbolized prosperity of kingdom. Then when they experimented with it for super human strength the lingam looses it’s power and turns black. Bijjala looses his hand and I don’t know what happened with prabhas1 but the priest gets prohibited from entering mahismati again. Mahismati turns from lush green kingdom to that decertified kingdom despite having a big river. On contrast watch Kuntala, for how green it is.
That unforgivable sin for personal gain is what completely prohibits them and makes them eligible to rule. From books we know that Ramya once loved Prabahs0 (explains why she loved Prabahs1 more than her own son and also explains why she gets jealous when another woman is trying to get yet another man she loved and makes her super obnoxious) and she spent her time in orphanage more than other kinds and made her very ambitious for the throne and power. She might also be involved in murder or Prabahs1 mother or his father . We can guess this just by asking how can as king so young die just like that? There is no mention of battle at all and kattappa mentions it as a sad consequence and state of affairs which makes us believe he wasn’t as good as prabhas1 was. Ramya is actually ALOT better than we think. There is a reason why they called her epitome of Justice.
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Sorry for some typos. Please correct them appropriately.
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I don’t know if I need a huge connection between the Lingams, beyond just that both father and son were raised in the presence of a Lingaa, and that power (of whatever kind you want to call it, memory of childhood, inspiration to a higher ideal, or a gift from God) was therefore available to Prabhas 2 when he needed it.
But I do like your point about how Mahishmati is so barren versus Kuntala and the forest. I hadn’t thought about it before, but you are right! That is odd! With all the symbolism of the land/elements paying tribute to the real heir and good rulers, I find it easy to believe that Mahishmati has been barren and dry for decades as it was without a “real” ruler that whole time.
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This point about Sivagami in love with Prabhas 0 once, I wonder how much of that love and their likely backstory as to what happened to their love affects Ramya’s reaction to Prabhas 1-Anushka decision to marry.
Here are some of my thoughts/questions:
How did Ramya end up with Nasser and not with Prabhas0? We know from the book that Prabhas0-Nasser mother was a pious but very mindful of her status lady, so much so that she thinks Mahismati family is not upto the status/standards of her own birth family. Did Prabhas0 mother forbade him from marrying Ramya as Ramya was just a nobleman turned traitor’s daughter? Did she give him the throne or lover choice? Did Prabhas0 actually end up choosing the throne and not Ramya?
If the above is true and we know that Ramya herself gives the same two choices to her former lover Prabhas0’s son Prabhas1. And Prabhas1 ends up choosing Anushka over the throne/Ramya.
Now Ramya’s feelings: she was dumped once by the father for the throne and now the son dumps her/the throne and chooses another woman. Is Ramya’s realization that perhaps she was not good enough for both the father and the son the reason she hates Anushka so much?
Or a completely different possibility did Nasser conspire to deny Prabhas0 his love by marrying Ramya? History then would be trying to repeat itself with Rana trying to snatch Anushka from Prabhas1 but failing. The more I think about this, it seems unlikely because Nasser seems pleasantly surprised when Rana tells him he wants Anushka.
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I could see all of that. I could also see just a simple version, in a “normal” family, you see your husband who you love reflected in your son who you love. And the woman who takes that son from you will trigger a sort of competition because she reminds you of yourself, just as your son reminds you of the man you love.
In this family, Ramya doesn’t actually love her husband (because it’s Nassar and he’s horrible). And so she has never really loved her son by Nassar in that way. But Prabhas 1 reminds her of a man she did love, Prabhas 0. And so Anushka triggers all these complicated feelings in her once she realizes it is a case of real love. I think even if it had been an arranged marriage with someone she chose, once the couple started to build their own bond between each other, she still would have been jealous. This just accelerated it a little because Anushka and Prabhas 1 were so clearly in love right away, even before marriage, with a connection outside of her.
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 9:14 PM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Sorry mate. I didn’t finish the book. I am not getting time to finish. I will comment on these as soon as I finish it.
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Hey all this is my speculation bases on what I can infer and what I saw, just like how people put up theories on game thrones episodes which makes them all the more interesting and exciting.
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Of course! We are all speculating here, the movies leave so many things unanswered, it is fun to see what we can fill in.
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One thing I would really like to thank you for is the analysis of first court scene between Anushka and Prabhas1 and Ramya. I really didn’t consider the family politics or woman’s heart or her broken family and favourite child theory. It really opened my eyes into a LOT of other sections and wholly new perspective of things. I would always assume plot details in movies as Indian movies don’t ‘explain’ the plot like Hollywood does but concentrate on emotions and heart in right place. But after reading your blog, I learned I can fill in emotional details too which makes my south Indian movie viewing more comfortable. Thank you for that.
I didn’t comment on a lot of articles because I thought they were old and I didn’t want to flood your inbox with comments. Can I comment on older posts?
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Sure! You can comment on anything. I kind of like when people comment on older posts, because it draws readers’ attention back to them.
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I’m not a hundred percent sure what to do with the supplemental materials, either. Historically, I tend to accept everything the creator says as canon, but with Baahubali, I have the problem of having made up my own histories for a lot of the characters (consistent with the films but not with other stuff) that I’m having a hard time letting go of: for example, “my” Sivagami as she exists in my head/my fanfic doesn’t have the backstory she does in the novels except in being originally from Mahishmati. Instead she’s born of a banking/trade-based family, and Nasser got married to her because the royal family needed money and they figured the son who wasn’t going to be heir to the throne might as well make the sacrifice to marry below his status (which is why he hates her so much – she’s a continual reminder of his being the lesser son). I also perceive her as being pretty quiet and taken for granted in her youth, quietly growing angrier and angrier without anyone noticing until she puts down the coup and asserts her power (basically a lot more like Rana than her portrayal in the books, which seems more like heart-on-his-sleeve Prabhas). I just haven’t figured out the best way to reconcile this in my head yet!
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There’s also the question of if the creator actually said any of this. With Bahubali-the-films, you’ve got the writer and the director and the actors all working together to collaborate and make this story. But are the novelizations written with their input? Or the Amazon series? Especially parts that don’t line up exactly with what we see on screen. For instance, Adi originally had a scene in DDLJ explaining that Amrish Puri lost all his money when he was tricked shortly after arriving in London, and he has never smiled since. Or returned home for a visit until he could repay the funds. Which matches exactly with everything we see and know of the character in the finished film. But with what is leaking out in comments about the additional Bahubali stuff, it’s not exactly that kind of “yes! Of course! The only possible answer!” feeling.
I also like to think of Ramya as really coming into her own in that introduction scene. Which fits with the film as well, everyone is a bit surprised by her actions and her confidence, as though she had never been noticed before. Which is just a small thing, but one of the ways that it sounds like the books don’t exactly perfectly match with the films, bringing up questions of canon.
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I read the credits for Amazon series. It clearly mentioned rajamoulis name and it had music from the keeravani son who sung dandalayya and Shiva songs in B2. Also I read interviews in which Rajamouli actually have rough sketches and incidental back stories of the characters and asked neelakantan (the author of books) to come up with a story, like connecting beads. He did exactly that. Also Rajamouli wrote forward for the book which means and explains in it that he very well approved of it before it is published. Or it is more like he took a side track and allowed others to take over the work he is not good at.
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I think its to be taken like all the other universes that exist out there – like the Marvel, DC, Universal Monsters, etc. The only difference here is that we started the story without a backstory through comics and books and series and stuff. For people who’d like to stick with their theories and characterizations, it will be a bit difficult to delve beyond the movies as it opens up a whole lot of other ideas. But the thing is, just like with people like Stan Lee, SSR and Vijayendra Prasad are involved to a certain extent in the other worlds. Well, Stan Lee got their backstories done first through the comics and then moved to films; here, its the other way around. I think its interesting to see how my ideas about th characters fit with their backstories (I had a surprise yesterday when I saw the second episode of the animated series and Prabhas1 is shown to be a flirt!). But it is a ‘to each his/her own’ kind of a deal. 🙂
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Well, now you just gave me another option bringing up Marvel, DC. With those, the pre-film universe was already so large, that the films picked and chose what to reference and include in their “canon” and what not. So if we go with that possibility, than we could say that the novels and cartoon are all optional variations, and if they line up well with the films, or explain something unexplained, then they are “canon”, but they may not necessarily do that.
What we really need is the “additional story from the Bahubali universe” that Rajamouli has hinted about! If it is conceived and created post-novel and cartoon and all, we can see how much of the backstory that those other sources added on he chooses to keep.
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Ah, I see what you mean. We need whatever bits and pieces are missing from the movies first before going on to the additional resources (trans-media or something its called?).
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“trans-media” sounds right, but I’m not sure. I had to learn about this stuff in grad school, but I didn’t pay much attention because I was thinking “sure, my classmates who are studying Star Trek or whatever need to know about this, but I’m in Indian film, it will never apply to me!” If I’d known Bahubali was coming, I would have paid a lot more attention!
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Hehehehhe I am glad that you’ve been taken by surprise (in a good way!). Although we’ve had many great films come out of India. Baahubali gives me a particular sense of pride. ☺️☺️
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I feel like the flirtiness was established in the first movie though, between the wink to the noblewomen and Manogari! (With his reaction to/wooing of Anushka being sufficiently different that Kattappa isn’t surprised to bring up marriage on the second day they know each other). But now that I think about it, I also likely because it slightly (very, very slightly) excuses Ramya’s trying to talk Prabhas into giving Anushka up if she assumes this is just another stupid flirtation where Rana has had this intense unspoken months-long passion (it’s basically the plot of Saajan!). She gets another reaction shot after Prabhas has his line about touching Anushka= laying hands on his sword, as though she hadn’t expected that things had gone so far, but by then it was far too late for her to feel like she could go back on her public decision.
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Wait, did Sanjay just fall in love with Madhuri’s picture in Saajan? Why did this never bother me before? Sanjay! Don’t be a creep!
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Avani, to me his flirtiness was a lot like what you (I think it was you?) said – that he thought it was this cool thing that he’s done as opposed to the effect it has on the girls. But in the animated series, he’s shown to lean into a girl like he’s lost in her eyes (or something!) and is about to kiss her (or something!!) and I’m going, “Nooooooo! Think about Devasena!!!” Even Manohari was sort of a means to an end and he seemed so gentlemanly in the way he dealt with those girls.
I guess its easy to forget that these men were once boys and had regular lives (esp post-puberty hehehhe) when they are introduced as warriors and then their lives take such a serious turns. One thing that I’ve got to admit though is that Sivagami and Bhalla are shown to be so consistent in their personalities in the animated series. Sivagami is all about the kingdom and politics and Bhalla doesn’t even look at girls!
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@Margaret: nah, I think Sanjay maybe corresponds with her as a pen pal, actually? But I guess the setup of poor tortured brother who loves in silence vs. the extrovert who gets all the girls is superficially similar? (And then we get back into the awesome part of the movie where it doesn’t matter who is better/ who loves her more, but who the girl wants)
@Apu- Ack, no, I haven’t seen the episode and assumed the flirting you mentioned was more of the same cocky/impersonal charming. I kind of want to cringe and go, “what about Devasena!” too. (I mean, for heaven’s sake, they dragged a mention of her into the comic books) This is just giving me more reason to be one of those grouchy, “film canon only!” fans. (I love that this movie has enough of a fandom that people can argue over supplemental materials being out of character.)
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Doesn’t Madhuri get that same kind of speech as Vyjantimala in Sangam? The “You bozos! What gives you the right to decide for me?” speech? And then she gets over it in like 5 minutes because the movie is about to end.
On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:26 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Of course I find it hard too, especially the amount of sexuality and corruption introduced into mahishmati. I thought it was a dreamland to live in. Turns out it is the worst place to live in with all those brothels and stuff like that. But, the modern day isn’t that great too.
What really is a give away from this is that, we emerge more and more in love with prabhas character as “untouched by sin” – just like Harry Potter untouched by the dark forces around him.
I didn’t picturize Ramya to be that great because in B1 when the coup happens, the guy actually says exactly this ” so Shivagami, this is cheating. You bought my men with money and pitted them against me. This is cheating and deceit” for which she replies ” this is not deception, this is the way of politics “.
I think we all need to rewatch both movies to really understand her political side and stop being overwhelmed by her motherly side because the focus of film is on it.
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Based on this interview with the author of the Rise of Sivagami, it sounds like the author mostly created the backstories himself. I don’t know if I would consider that canon.
http://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/movies/filling-in-the-blanks/article17766339.ece
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I’ve just been reading an analysis at another site of the Pachcha Bottesi song from Bahubali 1 (it is the Shivudu Avanthika love song). Basically, if you look at their tattoos, you see that when they are joined together, the complete tattoo on both of their arms is that of a peacock. But the part that is on Shivudu’s arm is a swan. Then, if you look at the statues that are standing in that garden, you notice that there is one of a swan unfurling its wings, which looks very much like the hansa naava boat as it takes off into the air. From this it is concluded that this song takes place in the ruins of the Kuntala palace; that is why there is so much white statuary around. And the final bit, the colors of the costumes (in the shot with the swan statue) are the same as the colors of the costumes in hansa naava as the boat takes off. What this shows to me is how much care and thought went into every little detail of each frame of each film (which of course was just one big film). I found this truly amazing.
These are the two shots in question.
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Fascinating! thank you. I assumed it was in Kuntala palace ruins after seeing the first movie, and I was hoping for a love song in the same location between the parents to tie it together. But that would have been a bit repetitive. I think this way is neater, having a new location that is tied by colors to the old location.
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Would it be okay if I posted a link here, Margaret? It gives the explanation of the lyrics to Oka Pranam and I’d love it if it could be explained. 🙂 [I am not sure what the correct ethics are regarding commenting on blogs with info from elsewhere]
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Oh sure, go ahead and link away! It may get caught in moderation because of the link, if you post it and it doesn’t pop up right away, let me know and I will free it from Spam jail.
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:48 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:
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Thank you! I’ve posted it as a reply to a comment by Moimeme. 🙂
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“Anushka does a fabulous job in this scene. Her face tells us how she is feeling, and it isn’t sad or angry, it’s straight up panic.”
My reading of the scene was that Devasena was in complete shock. When Sivagami reaches out & touches her feet, Devasena looks bewildered at her. Even when shes speaking with Sivagami it’s as if she’s still not accepted it fully.
What I didn’t fully understand was why does Devasena wait to be rescued for 25 years. She could just as well have escaped & planned her revenge herself. I got the feeling that if she had wanted it, she could have escaped from Bhallaladeva’s clutches (given her relentless will).
Is it that she wanted to avoid the focus on Mahendra by keeping it on herself & allow her baby to grow up?
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I don’t know if we can know for sure why Anushka’s character chose not to escape in those 25 years, or even that she didn’t try and fail.
But I like your idea as well as any other! It could be she thought she could serve best as an inspirational symbol of endurance, or that she was building up spiritual virtues to use in the final battle, or that for a while there she just didn’t care, or that she chose to remain becuase she knew it was weakening Rana to have her constantly stand up to him. Or your theory is good too! Or maybe it was a combination of all those things.
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