I am THRILLED by how many of us saw this opening night. Especially because I was left with so many questions, and now we get to chew them over together!
Whole plot in two paragraphs:
Ranveer lives with his rich Punjabi family that is dominated by his grandmother Jaya. His grandfather Dharmendra is disabled since a fall years earlier and has memory problems. Dharam suddenly starts saying a name, “Jamini”, so Ranveer looks in his old diary and figures out who the woman was and goes to see her granddaughter (Alia) who is a TV personality/aggressive journalist. Ranveer is immediately smitten, and Alia is immediately attracted. Plus, they find out that their grandparents had an affair decades earlier. Alia’s grandma Shabana is now widowed and still dreams of Dharmendra. Alia and Ranveer start helping their grandparents meet in secret and along the way keep up their own flirtation, eventually turning into make out sessions and goofiness. But then Ranveer proposes and Alia insists it was just a fling, they are too different. Alia goes on a work trip to Kashmir and realizes she actually loves Ranveer, returns home and proposes to him. Only their families will never agree. So as a test, they will each spend 3 months living in the other’s home.
Alia’s family is Bengali, intellectual, artistic. Her Mom is an English professor, her Dad is a classical Kathak dancer. Shabana is the only one who truly welcomes Ranveer into the home, her parents are a bit standoffish. Ranveer tries but struggles with poetry readings and making his own breakfast and so on. In Ranveer’s house, Alia gently bonds with his sister and mother, learning that his sister (who the family keeps trying to marry off) is a financial genius, and his mother has dreams of being a singing star. She tries to bond with the Dad, but he stays aloof, and Jaya is openly hostile. It reaches a peak when Jaya arranges for Alia’s Dad to be publicly humiliated by suggesting he dance at a Punjabi event where he is laughed off the stage. Ranveer apologizes to him and they finally bond over how he is trying to be a better person thanks to living with their family, but they need to give him a fair chance too. Meanwhile, Alia suggests a new ad campaign for Ranveer’s family’s sweet company and suddenly she seems to be winning over his side too. Until his family comes to her family’s Durga celebration and his father and grandmother storm out in the middle. Ranveer follows after and tries to talk to them but his father starts going on how “immoral” Alia’s family is. Alia jumps in to defend her family and talk back to Ranveer’s father, including slapping his pointing finger away. Ranveer tells her not to disrespect his father, it becomes a fight between them, and the engagement is over. Back home, Ranveer finally stands up to his Dad and his mother and sister follow suit. Just as they are preparing to leave the house, Dharmendra dies. After his death, Ranveer’s father realizes he has been a bad son, a bad husband, and a bad father because he put his relationship with his mother over everything. He apologizes and promises to do better. Alia’s family talks to her about how no family is perfect and she needs to be willing to accept the mess, to believe that Ranveer can change and be different from his family, Shabana confessing that her “perfect” dead husband used to beat her. Two months later, Ranveer’s parents, united, come to her family home and humbly ask her to take their son back. Ranveer and Alia embrace, and happy wedding scene over end credits!
I spent this whole movie waiting for the ending because that would make or break it for me. And I am giving it a pass, but just barely.
I like that, ultimately, Jaya is NOT forgiven. She is a toxic person who turned her son into a toxic person and created a household of misery. She is too far gone to be allowed into their lives, and it is okay to say that out loud.
I do not like that Jaya’s son/Ranveer’s father IS forgiven. On the one hand, it’s interesting that the film establishes how toxic masculinity is taught, how his mother squashed any instinct of softness in him from birth. But on the other hand, why? Why does the male figure get a pass while the woman doesn’t, for doing the same things? Especially since we saw Jaya was abused by her mother-in-law which taught her to be abusive in turn?
I very much like that the entire plot, including the ending, is driven by Ranveer and Alia and NOT their parents. They ending fight is about their families, but it’s still between them. Karan even frames it that way, having it go from Ranveer facing his Dad, to Alia and Ranveer’s Dad with Ranveer on the side, to Alia and Ranveer with everyone else shoved aside.
I loved loved loved what they did with Alia’s father. He isn’t the typical patriarch, he is a dancer, and he let his career take a backseat to his wife’s (they moved to Delhi for his wife’s job), he cooks for the family sometimes, he is emotionally open, he is loving, all those things. But when Ranveer apologizes for humiliating him in public, he is quietly strong and dignified in his response and you see why her family truly respects him (not just fears him as in Ranveer’s family with his father). This is a model of manhood from the older generation that Ranveer can aspire to.
I also loved loved loved how they handled the power balance between Alia and Ranveer without needing to underline it. Ranveer spends all his time at the gym and buying clothes, he falls in love with Alia at first sight and proceeds to tease and flirt and follow after her. Alia is strong and powerful in her career, works long hours, is ambitious, and Ranveer is there to bring her a tiffin. There’s never a conversation saying “I will be the sexy one who stays home and cooks while you go out and work”, we just see it. And there’s no judgement on that, it’s fine that Alia loves her job, and it’s fine that Ranveer doesn’t care about working but is good at emotional labor.
I loved loved loved the various gender speeches. Alia’s Mom has a fabulous speech about how it’s not “respectful” of men to not talk about/tough ladies undergarments, it would be more respectful to treat them as a fact of life and women as equals. Alia’s intro is a great speech attacking the idea that rape is somehow the “fault” of the woman. And the “controversial” ad that Alia suggests replacing shows woman dressed in saris serving laddoos to their husbands as they go to work. It’s truly, on the surface, not controversial. But the film, and Alia, point out how the underlying assumption of women being beautiful and cooking while men go to work is the problem.
The use of Kathak was fabulous. Twice we see men do a female number from Devdas. And it’s not drag, it’s not making a statement, it’s just doing a very lovely very difficult dance as it was choreographed. And it works, the male energy works (especially with “Dole Re Dole”). You can take the same dance, change the gender of the dancers, and it feels different but just as good (this is something that’s been done in ballet for a while, and it works the same there).
Oh, and the sexiness was amazing! You really feel that burble of excitement whenever the two of them meet, that instinct to almost kiss but not quite. And then they do kiss, and the world doesn’t end. They kiss, they hug, he undoes her sari strap, and everyone is just having a good time and not freaking out. Almost as though sex is a normal human thing! And at the same time, as though sex is just sex. We don’t actually know one way or the other if Alia and Ranveer go “all the way”, there’s no filmed sex scene. But it also doesn’t matter. They know they want to have sex with each other, the question is if they are also in love? And Dharmendra and Shabana’s relationship in the present is a lovely holding hands and kissing relationship, we don’t know if their brief affair in the past was physical or emotional, and that doesn’t matter either. It was deeply meaningful, we know that.
Other thing that was amazing, the “infidelity”! The film absolutely does not judge Dharmendra and Shabana. Shabana’s husband beat her and she stayed with him out of fear. Dharmendra was ignored and uncared for at home, his wife Jaya seemed incapable of love for anyone and kept his son from him. If one week together gave them the strength to survive their daily lives, good for them. And if widowed Shabana and mentally ill Dharmendra can find some happiness by spending time together in their last days, good for them too. This is beyond any strict moral rule, this is bending with the reality of the world.
Okay, that’s all I can think of to mention! And I very VERY much want your opinion on all of these points. Talk to me!
Oh, and final point, what was your theater experience like???? It was playing at about 5 theaters in my area, only one in the city and the others in the suburbs. I went to a suburban theater and it was about half full for our showing. I should say, there was also a MASSIVE storm last night (we had to pull over and sit for a while to wait for it to pass on the way home), so that may have cut down on how many people came out.
dontcallitbollywood 
I loved the film
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Well, Jaya’s husband cheats on her . Am I the only person reading between the lines?
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And in the K3G… Jaya’s controlling husband.
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And in Abhimaan Jaya’s husband threatened by her talent… the list goes on
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Wrote my own thoguhts, comments and viewing experience here!
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Great points, Kirre.
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Thank you!!
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Oh my gosh, I had such a hard time sleeping last night because I was thinking about the film.
1. Jaya was incredible. She essentially was her husband’s role in K3G, but whereas he got a BS redemption she didn’t EXCEPT, she kinda did. She admitted in a letter to being wrong. In K3G her husband never admitted to being wrong, and yet was forgiven. She admitted it, but stayed alone. Also, she could identify with her character it isn’t easy to know there is another woman in your husband’s life. And I thought the other woman showing up at the funeral was rough.
2. I did not think the film treated the affair between Dharmendra and Shabana without judgment. There were plenty of close-ups on Jaya’s face as she figured out what had happened and what was happening. And the illicitness of their meetings and spice and echoes of the unacceptableness of the Ranveer/Alia romance. After KANK my basic belief is that Karan is a supporter of divorce, but has realized that rather than showing divorce, showing people who SHOULD have divorced brings more sympathy to his cause.
3. I didn’t think the father was forgiven, I thought he said he would continue to work to be forgiven. He was at the wedding, and his wife went with him to bring Alia back to Ranveer, but I’m not sure that equals full forgiveness.
4. HUMOR – I thought this was the funniest Indian movie I have seen. Other comedies were sometimes enjoyable, and sometimes I figured too much was lost in translation. I know there were things lost in translation because the rest of the theater laughed more than I did, but I did laugh, a lot! And the kids laughed even more than me.
5. Ranveer – I basically felt that this was Ranveer expanding on his star persona. The clothes, the over-the-top ness. It isn’t that I think Ranveer is basically like the character, but I feel like he plays a similar character on a weekly basis in interviews and public appearances. Zoya gets amazing performances out of Ranveer by reigning him in, but here Karan let him loose and the result is fantastic. Also, is there an actress Ranveer has BAD chemistry with? The chemistry with Alia was great, but I feel like he did most of the heavy lifting.
6. I just wrote that Ranveer did most of the heavy lifting in the relationship with Alia but I will say her confused eyes during hugs and journey to realizing she was in love was great. She is a good actor. I’m nost sure she was irreplaceable in this film, but a lesser actor could have killed it.
7. The second half of the film did get preachy, but outside of the using the word cancelled multiple times it didn’t bother me. I liked the flaws of both families /political views being exposed.
8. I saw it in the suburbs in a giant theater complex in a half filled theater. The movie started playing at the listed time on the dot and most people came in 10 minutes late.
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I found that letter from Jaya believable. Because ultimately it was self-serving, still. She could tell herself she had made a gesture and wasn’t THAT bad, but at the same time it cost her nothing. It was a letter to Alia, the person to whom she owed the least. She was still estranged from her family enough to not even be at the wedding, a gesture that would have really publicly acknowledged her mistakes. So she keeps the company, she keeps the facade of being in the right, and she gets to try to win over the one person she kind of sees as an equal.
What I thought was interesting is that the affair didn’t “make Jaya bad”. It resisted the “marriage is the most important thing in a woman’s life” stereotype. Her marriage was very much an afterthought for her, she wanted power and wealth and only cared about people in how she could use them. Yes, it hurt to find out her husband had a One True Love that wasn’t her, but that came years and years after she had dismissed him from her life and stopped thinking of him as anything but a possession. If she hadn’t been so aware of Society, she would have divorced him ages ago and left him in the dust. Oh, and that Dharmendra would truly never have “betrayed” her if he had been in his right mind. That is, let her and the rest of the family know he had a love affair. He made a choice to walk away from Shabana and live with her memories for decades, it’s only now that his mind is gone and in his confusion he doesn’t understand the situation. It reminded me of stories of Alzheimers and dementia patients falling in love, it’s apparently fairly common? Two people in long term care with their minds almost completely gone who start holding hands and “liking” each other. And the usual reaction of the spouse is “well, they are happy, they don’t know what’s happening, it doesn’t mean anything”. Jaya could have chosen to have that attitude, that Dharmendra was no longer aware of his actions or anything else, and if spending time with Shabana helped him be happier and healthier, why not? That seemed to be how Ranveer saw it, it wasn’t even really a betrayal of his grandmother, it was a last ditch attempt to bring his grandfather back a little bit in his final days.
I hope you are right! They do leave it open, but I would have been happier if we got confirmation that the Mom and sister are leaving in their own home separate from the Dad (at least for now). Definitely very glad they did the time jump, not some magical overnight change.
Yes humor! And so much of it was situational! That is, just putting these very different people in these situations and then letting the humor happen. None of the usual big slapstick stuff.
You are correct, Ranveer has chemistry with EVERYBODY. I can’t think of someone where it didn’t work either. And letting him go big big BIG in this role was genius, he shot for the moon and made it. somehow all that bigness felt real, and his character still felt real too. It integrated. Actually, it’s kind of the opposite of Gully Boy! In that film, he was this beaten down small serious person who found his voice and got bigger and bigger until his final performance, totally over the top. In this one, he starts crazy over the top, and moves towards a super serious ending.
Agree about Alia. A bad actress would have killed it, but I could see anyone from Dips to Ananya (so sue me, I like her!) nailing the journey as well as she did.
I really liked the message of allowing people to grow and learn. At first I thought Karan was going for a “ha-ha, don’t take it seriously, people don’t know better” message. But he ended with “they don’t know better, but teach them and give them a chance to LEARN instead of just writing them off”. I like that message. Especially because Ranveer just needed a few serious conversations, a few moments of being given a chance, and he changed his attitude.
I came in 10 minutes late myself! Miss-calculated traffic.
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IMO it was very clear that Alia and Ranveer had had sex, also Dharmendra and Shabana too. Jaya is narcissist who likes her own power and twists everything to serve her. It’s not about patriarchy because if it were, her husband would be put on the pedestal, not just the son. I was late in the beginning so I missed the part about she getting abused by her m-i-l? I didn’t pick that up?
Ranveer’s dancing was so good and perceptibly different before and after he learnt it from Alia’s Dad. He has done such a phenomenal job.
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The opening went really really fast! Ranveer zips through his family history, tough great grandma, poet father, Jaya marries in and grabs the keys to the money cupboard as soon as her mother-in-law dies, has a baby and refuses to let her husband even hold it, then her husband has a fall and becomes an invalid and she ignores him and punishes her son when he tries to spend time with his father. And then we go straight to Ranveer’s opening song.
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Gosh looks like I missed a lot. I got there when Dharmendra kisses a strange lady calling her jamini. So I missed his opening song. Maybe I should go back 😝
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I kept waiting to see if they will show Dharmendra getting divorced and getting together with Shabana but I guess that would have been too radical. I also don’t believe people like Tijori change even in “few months” so i had to just keep my knowing aside and treat it as a “movie”
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I didn’t think Dharmendra and Shabana would get together, and that was part of the beauty of it. He was too sick to get married, start over, have more than a few happy moments and memories. But if they had gone for it as young people, they could have had years of happiness. The most I was hoping for was Dharmendra being put in a decent nursing home where Shabana could visit him without needing to hide.
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That decent nursing home thing doesn’t really exist in India / very rare
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Oh booo! Well, short of that Ranveer could have moved him into independent living with nursing care and Shabana could have visited him.
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Yes that is very doable!
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My theatre was full and I’ve noticed that AMC nearby has introduced additional shows to keep up. Eg two shows at 10.15 pm today and two more at 11 and 11.30 pm. Another cinema has 7.40 and 7.45 pm.
Clearly it’s more demand than they had planned for. Especially as many were in smaller auditoriums. I am seeing a few with a large number of seats now
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I was considering going back to watch it but the short songs left me feeling rushed and unfulfilled. I don’t want to feel like that again. I’ll just wait for it to be on streaming so i can watch the songs. I also had the impulse many times during the movie to fast forward (as though i was streaming) lol. I still loved it and it was primarily because of Ranveer. It seemed like little snapshots of many things together in fragments… so yeah this is me agreeing with you with “not enough”. The fragmentation and short songs made it a less immersive experience than i would’ve liked.
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See, these are the reasons I WANT to see it again. For me, sometimes those “fragment” movies come together and make more sense when I know how it all works and where it is going. Luckily, I will have friends who will wnat to see it with me 🙂
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I think i felt unsatisfied with the songs and I don’t like that. And I am realizing it was because of the camera angle changes maybe and not the length
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Sorry for the “fragmented” comments – things coming to me as i process the movie from last night.
In the kathak dance in durga pooja – my complaints were his often the camera angle changed and how the dance itself was not zoomed in enough. It was very annoying to not be about to see it. Eg cutting away from it once or twice might have been ok but it felt like every second or third frame. Very very annoying
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Ok iphone auto correct sucks, correcting things that didn’t need correcting. I’m going to write again
In the kathak dance in durga pooja – my complaints were how often the camera angle changed and how the dance itself was not zoomed in enough. It was very annoying to not be able to see it properly. Eg cutting away from it once or twice might have been ok but it felt like every second or third frame. Very very annoying
And it’s kind of how the film felt overall in general – conviction but only half conviction
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Maybe they just weren’t good enough to do it in one take?
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Yeah maybe. I was just watching Gangubai songs on kathiawadi on YouTube to test my hypothesis about Scene changes and yes those songs are similar length but better focused on the primary scene. No idea why it was this way – intentional or adaptive. Maybe it’s meant for the tik tok generation with short videos stitched tougher and short attention span. Clearly not me
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I feel this movie will remain stuck in multiplexes and won’t see the big business it probably needs to recover cost. I could be wrong. But maybe the overseas business will help
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Barbieheimer and the bad release date of this film definitely has affected overseas. Usually it would release into many theatres, but even my nearby theatre did not have a showing for it and I had to travel a bit to see it
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I guess Dharma’s international distribution / intelligence isn’t as strong as YRF…
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Yea YRF and Ponniyin Selvan got the royal treatment here having so many shows in almost every theatre
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The smart thing is, I don’t think the cost is all that high. No CGI, no action sequences, that’s what really drives the cost up. This is an old school film, made like the 90s when there was no funding. Not even that much location shooting! Just the Kashmir sequence, everything else is soundstages and a few outside location shots. Karan’s Dad taught him how to film CHEAP, he just forgot all those lessons in the past few years. I bet the profit to cost comparison for this is way WAY better than Brahmastra even if it doesn’t do half the business.
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I hope you’re right and hope he makes money on this movie!
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Did you read about the whole Ranveer flinching away from Alia’s hair flip drama on social media?
I mean of course their chemistry is nothing like SRK and kajol, it isn’t fair to compare. What do you think about it?
Karan also talks about it in his interview
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No, i am behind on everything! What happened?
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https://www.pinkvilla.com/entertainment/news/karan-johar-finally-reacts-to-alia-ranveers-hair-flip-scene-from-rrkpk-being-compared-to-shah-rukh-khan-kajol-1233334
These should help. He talks about it in his interview with Anupama Chopra too
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Sheesh, this is a tempest in a teapot. That’s the kind of moment you can’t even see until you are editing the song later. SRK leaning in to hair is just a thing he did in the moment that we saw after it was edited, Ranveer in the moment leaned away for whatever reason, no one would have been able to tell (himself included) until it slowed down.
Ready for my theory? Alia was postpartum, maybe her hair smelled of baby sick all the time.
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😀😀😀 yes very possible
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I loved it! First Indian movie I’ve seen in a while because all the nationalism and misogyny put me off so much every time with new releases, and first one in YEARS I’ve really enjoyed.
Have to say I didn’t know most of the old songs referenced because my knowledge isn’t in that channel but enjoyed that regardless, cried buckets over the old actors.
Also enjoyed the way it seemed to suggest Amitabh is poetry-addled and senile, though was it also suggesting Shabana had an affair with Shashi when he was old too? The use of the year 1978 seemed pointed.
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Did not think about it as referencing real life AT ALL! I just thought of them as Kabhi Kabhi references. Kabhi Kabhi if Amitabh was left alone and miserable at the end, as he deserved to be.
I am assuming you enjoyed Ranveer’s character? He felt very Popka to me.
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I feel like there was definitely some playing around with real life going on, just like in those old movies. But good point; I hadn’t thought of Kabhi Kabhi as a plot reference, only Silsila, which is weird, because that one song that was on the mountains and in the forest definitely referenced Kabhi Kabhi the song and I realised it immediately watching it.
Oh yeah, a himbo with a flashy and vulgar dress sense? The dream.
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I’m going against the tide here and admitting I didn’t like the film that much and for me it was a bit of a regression of Karan Johar the director. I completely enjoyed the first half whole heartedly. It was funny and struck a fun vibe with the jokes but still a sense of darkness with how terrified Ranveer was of his family. The real problem I had with was the second half. The motivations of many characters were half baked and not dealt with well in my opinion.
For example, his sister is supposed to be a maths genius and an expert trader. It would’ve been nice for his sister to involve herself in the family business rather than being a trade analyst in Alia’s network. Ranveer’s family also seemed like a a parallel of Alia’s family with a much more unhealthy dynamic. Basically the artist and the more successful one. In Alia’s family, her father is a dancer and her mother is a successful english professor. While in Ranveer’s family, his mother is a a singer and his father is a successful CEO. I thought this parallel will be more explored with all the other aspects. Though Alia’s parents are nice, her mother does seem slightly controlling in who she dates and what she talks and how she behaves. Her mother also was quite rude and classist with the way she behaved to Ranveer and his family.
Essentially I didn’t like the focus on Ranveer’s family being wrong and Alia’s family being the most perfect liberal family ever. I would’ve found it a much better family if the focus was more equally distributed and Alia wouldn’t have been the saviour. Also while I loved Ranveer, I do wish they gave him more meat and talent. Like Ranveer being a gym addict but also very knowledgeable about fitness and how it affects the body. I don’t know it just sometimes felt like the film felt a bit like Alia was just this knight in shining armor with this perfect everything.
In older families, Karan Johar really nailed these complicated dynamics between families. Especially in Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna, Kal Ho Na Ho(though I hated how that movie SRK is the saviour of all) and My name is Khan. He really brought out the complexities and the various societal norms. In this, the dynamic is just not explored as well as previous films. It doesn’t show a more grey dynamic with families complexities and struggles.
I also genuinely did not like Jaya being the all out villain. I had sympathy for her in the same way I had sympathy for Rishi Kapoor in Patiala House. I genuinely admire a woman who turned a small passion to making Ladoos into a multimillion dollar empire(considering they were named Top Punjabi of the year I truly wonder how rich they are). Considering that woman was probably uneducated and had little exposure to the real world. Though that doesn’t make her tyranny justifiable, I felt in movies like Qala explore these dynamics much better and in a more sympathetic way. I did feel that her being so unloving and so much of a tyrannical person just for me was almost demeaning the fact that she also had to struggle. The thing is the son (who really had very less redeeming about him) got a redemption arc why couldn’t Jaya get some sympathy. Though I did like that she didn’t get redeemed.
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I saw things a bit differently between Alia and Ranveer’s family. The moment when Alia learns her “perfect” grandfather was abusive seems to shake her, make her realize that no family is “perfect”. I think Karan should have hit that harder, made Alia realize that a liberal progressive blah blah family can also have terrible abuse within it, it’s about the people not the politics. But I think that was intended to do what you wanted, yes Alia’s family is all good people now who try to do the right thing, but it wasn’t always like that.
I would have liked Ranveer’s dancing explored a little more. That was a character note that was there literally from his introduction but it wasn’t hit quite as hard as it could be. Maybe something about his friend Minty inviting him to perform at his engagement and Ranveer being too scared to do it in front of his father? Showing that he had actual talent and interest but was just afraid?
Agree absolutely about the Dad being forgiven and Jaya not. I think it would have bothered me even if the genders were reversed? Patriarchal father and mean daughter? It just felt like Karan was trying to have his cake and eat it too, finally NOT forgiving a family elder, but then throwing in a second family elder who does get redeemed. I also wonder, you point out KHNH and KANK and MNIK as having more layered family dynamics and I agree, but in those Karan knew he was going to end with Forgiveness and Love no matter how unreal that seemed (I still think the KHNH Grandma should have been cut off as soon as she slapped Gia, and Rani and Abhishek becoming friends was WEIRD). I think that let him feel like he could go as dark and complicated as he wanted because he knew he was going to end all sunshine and rainbows. With this one, since he knew Jaya wasn’t going to be forgiven, he leaned away from any sympathy for her.
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I do agree with you that it seemed to attempt at showing equal problems in both families however I feel the families classism was also not addressed. It was quite obvious in many scenes that the family looked down on Ranveer’s family as well. The mother especially I feel was the rudest to Ranveer but never apologised for her behavior formally. I do think that they could’ve brought out the flaws in the way we criticise people for not speaking English in a classical way or behaving in a pre mandated way through Alia’s family. Like in my own personal experience, many of my friends who are from very educated or ‘cultured’ Indian families are often not allowed to behave in a certain way or speak about certain things because that shows a lack of refinement. I agree they attempted to show that her grandfather who was all of those things still was a terrible person but perhaps some things needed to be more obvious.
I think with Ranveer they were just confused on what to do with him. Initially I thought he was just into the gym which they could’ve showed as a legitimate interest and not some fleeting hobby like his parents treat it. Than they show in that ad scene that Ranveer has insight and more flexibility to change with the times. This made me think they’ll make him actually good at business even if he is not academically smart. Than the dancing which I thought would develop into something but I think that was just showing Ranveer’s general kindness and caring nature. I do believe that the dancing was more of a parallel between Ranveer’s mother and Alia’s father. Like how good parenting allows for art to grow and in another it allows it to diminish. I do wish there was a sweet scene between the in-laws, with Alia’s father dancing and Ranveer’s mother singing; I guess that might be too romantic but I feel if it was played right it would work.
I had a feeling that was the case with why he didn’t want to make her sympathetic but I still had sympathy for Jaya. I think a movie like Qala played this dynamic very well, with the mother being equally cruel but you can also understand her actions. It’s just that I genuinely admire a woman like Jaya for rising against all the odds but also despise her for being so mean to everyone. Plus I am sure knowing Indian society that it wasn’t easy to raise her son alone with no help from her husband. Especially considering they weren’t originally a wealthy family and looked to be lower middle class.
I do believe though that Ranveer’s father if was shown to be cruel to protect his family from his mother and is not realising that he is hurting them. I would feel some sympathy for him. The thing is I felt he was the most cruel in the movie and without the whole father angle would be basically unforgivable.
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I thought that Alia’s character’s mother was awful. I was not aware that I wasn’t supposed to think she was awful. I assumed that other people would also see her classism, English snobbery, and meanness as awful. I mean her English snobbery was so extreme it was comic. And if the director included scenes of Jaya with her mean mother-in-law, wouldn’t that mean he DOES want people to feel sympathy?
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I also think that Jaya had a really hard time with her mother in law which made her so bitter. Like they show that her mother in law dominates her while her husband is just in an artistic haze. I think that was what I didn’t like the way they completely invalidated Jaya’s feelings by making her completely cruel and loveless. Like perhaps when she got a son, she was glad as she felt she will finally have someone to protect her from the struggles. It was just disappointing they left that aspect.
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Pingback: Rocky Aur Rani Kii Prem Kahaani Review/Spoiler Discussion Space! – Siyal News
Late to the discussion, but enjoyed reading through the comments here. I finally got to see it yesterday afternoon and my theater in a suburb of Philly was about half full for a 1:40 show. And apparently they have added shows this week (this one is a steady hit as they are saying. Unfortunately the Regal I used to go to that was closer to where I live has closed down and that one played multiple Indian films at a time from all regions. Now I think I’ll be lucky to see the big Hindi releases only and will have to travel further:(
So I basically basked in the glow and glitter of this film and give it 5 out of 5 stars with no notes. I’m all in. That’s how a classic Bollywood romance is made, folks! Unabashedly a Karan Johar superfan and I have a feeling this middle age era will bring his biggest hits and this is just the first. I would argue that Bombay Talkies, ADHM, Lust Stories, and now RARKPK (haven’t seen Ghost Stories short yet) are a clear second phase of his career. RARKPK is now tied for 1st with K3K for my favorite of his, with ADHM as 2nd (unpopular opinion I know…still don’t love the ending…but this one along with Aditya’s Befikre are fascinating to me as they both are trying to be hip and cool and I think they should be given a little more slack). KKHH is a distant third and then Lust Stories short is next as an honorable mention!
Random thoughts on the film and response to discussions above…
I also liked how the father was not forgiven immediately…I think the few months later note is to tell us that it’s taking time before he comes to his senses and just because he and his wife go together to Rani’s house it doesn’t mean everything is perfect yet. I think his suppressed anger at how his mother kept him from his father and the trauma of his father’s death are enough to keep him evolving into a better father and husband.
I was glad that the sister didn’t go to work for the family (yet). She needs to go out on her own and make her own career first. She and her mom were slightly underwritten, but I think as “types” they worked well in the plot.
This is Ranveer’s “Geet” and I really hope he wins the Filmfare this year (it will be quite a race because SRK could be there in the category three times!). The award doesn’t matter and isn’t even objective as we know, but he deserves it. He is everything in this one…superstar, heartthrob, and actor. The switching between humor and emotion was perfection. The scene with the bra and how he “acted” how uncomfortable he was was a stand-out for me.
I think Alia’s performance has been overshadowed, but she is also wonderful. Conveying a confident and well-adjusted woman who is surprised at where her heart takes her. Rani gets slightly too preachy in the second half, but since we are on her side it’s not too much. The scene with Jaya in the sweet shop was great (and totally ripped off from Crazy Rich Asians…which this film owes a lot to), but I also loved her reactions to Ranveer’s character and performance.
Chemistry was just outrageously good. I’m thinking about the last time I saw this level of effortless sexy and fun chemistry on screen in a Bollywood film…maybe Vicky and Taapsee in Manmarziyaan, even though they don’t end well;) Definitely not Ranbir and Shraddha in Tu Jhooti… even though I liked that one much more than I thought I would. Honestly, I saw it in the past in Kriti and Sushant in Raabta, Ranveer and Vaani in Befikre, and even Ranbir and Anushka in ADHM in the first half.
Special shoutout to Abhinav Sharma who plays Vicky, Rocky’s friend. He steals some scenes in a very subtle way. I want to see more of him.
The Dharmendra and Shabana of it all was very sweet and I totally want to spend some money to buy that Saregama radio and play those classic Hindi songs, so the product placement was a success!
The saris were gorgeous and really do deserve a shout-out (costuming is so important in character development) and, honestly, everything in this movie was gorgeous, wasn’t it?
I even liked the music and picturizations more than most, I think. Certainly the Dola Re Dola homage (and plotline) was so powerful and I loved the rest of that song and dance sequence, too. I really hope the songs are expanded in the Amazon release as Karan has said might be the case.
Hearthrob was definitely a guilty pleasure for me. I was so glad that he got in some cameos as he always does. Janhvi and Ananya both looked great, but were a little bit awkward with the dancing and chemistry with Ranveer, but I thought the moments with Sara Ali Khan were smokin’ hot! I do obviously prefer her over the other two, but I think it helped that she and Ranveer already have worked together (would love to see them together again!). I kind of wish that they had been able to sneak in two other former heroines instead of the other two. Maybe Vaani, Parineeti, Sonakshi or even Anushka (which would have been a nice link to AEDH) would have worked better and would have been more nostalgic for me. I think Deepika would be too much star power and too obvious. I get why Karan put these three in because they are the newest it girls. Though I would say Kriti is now more “the” it girl and has surpassed them. I really hope that Sara is in his next feature film. She has the same maturity and substance that Kriti has (while Janhvi and Ananya still seem to be finding their sea legs and are just too naif or something).
Now I’m already in a Bollywood hangover…I don’t want to watch any other Indian films because I don’t want to harsh the buzz, but I also want the same romance high, so I’m pulling out all of the South Asian-related romance novels on my TBR shelf to find my next read. September and the Amazon release can’t come fast enough.
P.S. My friend and her teen daughter also loved this one and I think my friend and I have convinced the teen that we need to go see Jawan in September, too. We are all also somewhat excited for Dream Girl 2. My friend is an Ayushmann superfan and I like him a lot, too, of course. This sequel looks better than the first already, despite Ananya…but I’ll still give her a chance:)
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I’m so glad you got to see it in theaters! And that it lived up to our hopes.
Agree about this being Ranveer’s Geet, I was watching it thinking about how the traditional gender roles were flipped-but-not, and it’s that exactly. He is still the pursuer, he is still the proposer, all of that. But he gets to play the “manic pixie dream girl” role of the person with so much personality they draw the other person in. Instead of being the boring Strong Silent type of hero while the heroine has all the fun. It’s very Allu Arjun.
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Laughed, and more importantly, cried multiple times watching a movie after so long, trust KJo to hit those emotions! So much to love in this. Going in, Ranveer was getting praised by everyone, but watching him I felt he has always excelled in this type of role, right from his first film, so he didn’t surprise me. I was pleasantly surprised by Alia, she was excellent. Her reactions to Rocky guided how we saw him, it made him more lovable for us. This is an obvious connection but it’s a total young Rani Mukherjee role.
In spite of their performance, their love story was not the most compelling or interesting aspect for me. Part of it is by design I’m sure. I’ve been thinking since seeing it as to why I didn’t care about them as a couple. A very subjective reason maybe is that for me to care about a heterosexual relationship, I have to be attracted to the male character, but I’m not attracted to a character like Rocky! He’s a great example of positive masculinity but I see him more like a puppy – soft, full of love, lost, in need of guidance – I want to give him a hug. I don’t know if I’m making sense but let’s just say if they hadn’t gotten together at the end I wouldn’t have been that sad. And I feel even Rani would have gotten over it fine. I think what would have helped is to have shown more pining and yearning from Rani’s side. Tum Kya Mile tried to do that but didn’t succeed for me, it needed something on the level of Janam Dekh Lo from Veer-Zara.
For me the best parts were the ones set to the vintage songs like the Dharmendra-Shabana romance, Kathak portions of Ranveer and Tota, the MIL, SIL dancing with Alia and Alia-Ranveer with the families. The way the audience was participating in those by singing along, hooting, clapping, etc definitely elevated them. This is maybe where my experience differs from that of non-Indian watchers here because they don’t have that connect with the songs. Unfortunately, that made the original songs pale even more in comparison, except Ro Lein De and Kudmayi. Sonu’s voice after so long feels like a balm and people should definitely watch the video for Kudmayi (it’s visually gorgeous and Alia has a unique look with her veil lit up in a triangle of light that wowed me).
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Sorry it took me so long to comment. As you know, we saw the movie on the first day. But we were in the throws of Mr. Toddles having another ear infection and being scheduled for an emergency procedure to get tubes in his ears and then vacations. Most of what I wanted to say has already been covered so I will add a few random things that haven’t been covered in the comments yet.
1. So, interesting factoid, the original script of Rock Aur Rani was written by Sohail Khan (Salman Khan’s brother) loosely based on his relationship and wedding to Seema Sajdeh. It never happened and eventually Karan bought the script and changed the Hindu woman/Muslim guy set up because of obvious current climate, to Punjabi guy, Bengali girl. He also put Shashank Kaitan in re-writing and modernizing the script.
I found this so fascinating, but if you end up looking at this film as written by Shahank and directed by Karan, it makes perfect sense to me. It has Shashank’s modern take on films Karan was involved in, i.e., a modern version of K3G written all over it – very similar to Humpty being the modern version of DDLJ.
And yet, it is 100% directed by Karan. As you mentioned, he sort of take an actor’s personality and lets them just lean into it and do what they do best.
Anyways, thought you might enjoy this info.
2. I know most of you all loved the chemistry between Ranveer and Alia, and while I did too, I didn’t find it to be the crazy romantic chemistry I find between Alia and Varun or SRK and Kajol. To me, it was amazing chemistry because I saw Ranveer and Alia’s chemistry as very closely related to SRK and Juhi in Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani. Does that make sense? Like they are just such good friends and have so much fun together, they can bring that energy to the set. I guess that’s it. It was a friend’s chemistry.
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That is interesting!!!
I agree, and also I think that is a more important kind of chemistry for this film. We have to believe them as people who like each other and work together and so on and so forth.
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Oh one more thing! When the movie comes out on streaming, would you be willing to please do post to find all the filmy references from the movie?
They were so fun in Rocky Aur Rani.
Off the top of my head the one I am distinctly thinking of is how the offensive laddoo advertisement was a spoof of Hum Saath Saath Hai! We at DCIB talk about that all the time when we watch that movie together!!!
Of course the other obvious one being Ranveer saying “Dhanlakshmi Sweets… Naam toh Suna Hi Hoga like Rahul.. ya know”
There were so many more my sister and I spotted and I’m sure others spotted that I just can’t remember.
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So glad I’m not the only one who thought of HSSH! Also, why aren’t you at watchalong? Do you hate us now?
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Ha! You know I love you all and love watchalongs. Everyone is just a bit under the weather since we got back from vacation and I just wanted to let myself sleep in today. I’m starting my computer so I can jump on the watchalong for even a few minutes before the chaos starts.
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J/k. We just made an appointment to Mr. Toddles to the doctor this morning. He’s been crying non-stop since yesterday afternoon and we need to figure out what’s wrong with him. It better not be another ear infection since he just got tubes in his ears a few weeks ago. Ugh! Sorry. Have to miss the watchalong.
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Mr. Toddles!!!!! Maybe he is crying because he knows his days as an only child are numbered?
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You are totally right! ☺️
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I watched the movie as soon as it appeared on Prime, and I loved it. I have many thoughts, the first one: Why nobody told me one of the characters is Kathak dancer? But maybe it’s even better, I had a super nice surprise. I can’t explain how soothing it is for me to see traditional dances, and scenes where a guru teach music/dance. Those scenes were very short, but made me so happy. Of course I also loved how the entire character was written: vulnerable, but at the same time strong, good, respected by his family. I need an entire movie about Chandon Chatterjee and his struggles since te childhood., directed by Bhansali.
Other thing I loved – Ranveer. OMG he was so good. He is one of those actors who can just stand there, (seemingly) doing nothing but you can see there is so much happening inside. And he have the looks, the comic timing and can dance. The full packet.
I also liked Alia a lot in this film. I’m not a fan, because usually I found her boring, but here finally she was not Alia Bhatt, but the character she was playing. She was Rani. And she looked different, she looked good, like a movie star she is.
The last thing I remember – I think I disagree with y’all about Rocky’s father. I was happy he was forgiven. He really loved his father and wanted to spend the time with him, but his mother didin’t let him do it. Jaya, on the contrary, never showed any emotion, regret o feelings.
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