Oh boy, a thinky post! About a topic on which I have NO personal experience! Which means I will be trying to articulate what I observed, but also trying NOT to offer judgement or advice because people without kids who judge people with kids are the Worst People.
I started thinking about this a few weeks ago when I was driving down a busy street. I was in a hurry, I saw a young woman about to cross the street and accelerated so I could get by before she started instead of waiting. And right after that, I saw a tiny tiny little girl running across the street with her Dad in the middle of the block to get to their car, and I hit the brakes HARD. I should say, they weren’t running in front of my car, her Dad was there holding on to her, if I’d done the same thing as before and accelerated he would have waited for me to pass and crossed during the next gap in traffic. But I had an immediate “nope, small child, hitting the brakes, she gets to cross without pause”. It was a moment of LITERALLY stopping the world to slightly ease the way of this child. And it made me think about that instinct, that innate human instinct, to turn the world upside down in order to protect a child.
When I say “protect”, I don’t mean like the big macho beating off a hundred goons kind of protect. I mean like protecting them from ever hearing ugly anger, or feeling unloved, or learning too soon that there is no Santa Claus. Giving them a feeling of total safety and love as long as possible because the world will take it away soon enough.
That’s such a natural human instinct that it is hard to even put into words what is wrong when it is broken. Or I guess, it’s impossible to explain to someone how they failed as a parent if they don’t get it. It’s the “I” statements, that’s the sign that they don’t get it. “I left my kids with my parents for two years because I had to pursue my dreams”. “I hate my mother and I just had to have it out with her right then”. “I fell in love and couldn’t say no so I had to leave my family”.
I’m sounding judgey. Obviously parents are also people and they can only parent well if they protect their own needs. But there’s a line, isn’t there? Maybe the line is just CONSIDERING your kids? Like, you fall in love and leave your family but feel super guilty and worried about your kids and make sure you stay in touch with them. Versus, you fall in love and leave your family and just kind of stop thinking about any consequences at that point. And if anyone says to you (including your own children), “how could you do that? That was hurtful” your response is “But I had to do it FOR ME! Why won’t you understand?”
The reason I am thinking about this, along with the whole “apparently the world stops so a little girl can feel safe crossing the street” experience, is the combo of Jawan and Tiger 3 releasing back to back. Jawan has these marvelous messages of parental love and protection, but although the parents in the film go above and beyond, they never really have to confront a choice between themselves and their kids.
(lovely song, but think about this. What if Deepika had chosen to try to escape jail and execution and go live a simple life somewhere with no worries about revenge or anything because that would be best for her son? And then Shahrukh grew up and was furious she hid his past from him, and she took his anger because it was worth it knowing she gave him a safe happy childhood?)
In Tiger 3, there is that choice. Morality, ethics, the very heart of who you are in the world, versus the safety of your child. And BOOM, they pick their kid. Not even one second of hesitation. I really liked that. In the abstract, I would prefer if Super Spies picked the safety of the world over their child, but as a movie message I very much appreciated saying “no, your kid should come first”.
Most people aren’t Super Spies. Most people are more along the lines of “go out with friends to a bar or go to my kid’s school play”. But in cultures where having children is the default, I am shocked by how often the choice is “skip the school play”.
What I think of as “normal” parenting means you don’t just go to the play, you WANT to go to the play, it gives you greater joy and happiness than anything else you could be doing with your time, and you feel super sad and disappointed if you can’t make it. But I guess if you think of your kids as kind of accessories to a normal life, as a given, as something that is a bit of a duty, maybe it does feel like a drag to do these things?
I’m not sure I am saying this well, I guess what I am saying is that the base line of good parenting is instinct, that immediate “I will always put you first” feeling that informs every moment of your life at least until they are safely adults. And if you don’t have that instinct, there’s no way to explain it to you. Looking at movies, you can see the films that really feel that instinct versus the ones that only use parenting as a plot device, as something with big speeches and high drama.
If I think about the best illustration of what I mean, it is Bajrangi Bhaijaan. Salman isn’t even a parent in that, he is just the foster uncle in charge of a little girl for a little while. But beyond the big fight scenes and all the macho stuff, we see in every moment of interaction between them that instinct to keep her feeling safe. He plays with her, he keeps her warm, he keeps her fed, and he knows that being the person with that instinct is the most important thing, that she is safest with him BECAUSE he loves her that much and you need that kind of love to care for a child.
dontcallitbollywood 
I have to admit, I think your standard for “normal” parenting is just a tad high. I mean, of course I want to see Big Boy play the fire in the nativity play at daycare. But moments do creep in when playing with the kids starts to feel like a drag, or where I might prefer getting to see Sonu Nigam live to driving back from a family weekend.
Kids can be hard work, too, 24/7, and if you skip the night with friends every time, soon your social life will consist only of other parents. Which seems pretty “normal” by now. 😉
I can also think of situations that are dire enough for a parent to justify leaving the kids with their parents, for example. My red line is probably that they first make sure that the kids are taken care of.
I had to think about that “save the world or save your loved ones” dilemma with the Scarlet Pimpernel. And apart from the whole problem of trusting a blackmailer, I was at least very sympathetic to Marguerite betraying her hero for her brother.
Actually, your observation about our reaction to kids n explains the inconsistencies I noticed in two episodes of Supergirl, where it was treated as better to save the world than save your hero sister, but it was OK to give the villain the doomsday device in exchange for your daughter.
By the way, though, when I’m out with my kids I rarely allow car drivers to just let us pass. I want my children to learn to look for themselves. And there’s always a risk that another driver hasn’t noticed them.
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See, it’s the fact that in all of your examples it ultimately still takes the kids into consideration. Like, even being selfish has that added part of “being selfish will make me a better parent long term”.
What is so hard to understand, or explain to people who are like this, is when you don’t take the kids into consideration. Like, you have to be reminded of them instead of always having them in the back of your mind.
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Yeah, I guess I can’t imagine not caring about my children. But I will say this much: If I didn’t, life with small children would soon become very tough. They are just so demanding! I might become very harsh with them, or expect to get something back, or want them to at least make me look good to society. Actually, basically everything Naina describes further down. This might be one of the rare instances in life where a distinction actually is more black and white than grey.
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YES! THAT’S IT! If someone approaches parenting in terms of “what is in it for me?” they are missing the point. That point being, “what is in it for you is parenting itself!” Not like every moment of time should be overwhelming joy, that’s impossible, but overall it should be something you want to do. If you combine all the diapers and nightmares and bathtimes and bedtimes and all of it, the balance should be strongly towards joy. Rather than “well this is all misery, but in 20 years they will buy me a car and that will be worth it”. It’s a journey with no goal, if that makes sense. You should be able to just enjoy the journey as its own reward, and if you can’t enjoy the journey, you probably shouldn’t start.
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No parents are perfect but the question is whether they provide good enough parenting. Abandoning your child for two years is definitely not good enough parenting. I agree that “considering” the child’s needs is an absolute minimum. Others imo – treating the child as a person, not a trophy, mascot, service provider; doing the job of being the emotional adult; not blaming the child for parental failings, not hitting and physically abusing the child… I could go on.
But they all start from respect and consideration. Love seems to be an overused word borrowed from a Hallmark card so very easily parental abuse on one end and constantly saying I love you on another… Very messed up.
Like Shahrukh said once – if you love then there shouldn’t be a need to say it.
Saying it is useful only if it aligns with overall actions
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PS – this is all from my personal experience of receiving bad parenting
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Yes. there are parents in my family (as there are in all families) who never said “I love you”, never felt comfortable saying the words for whatever reason. But their kids still felt love, actually saying the words is meaningless compared to feeling it. And all the hallmark card moments in the world don’t make up for a harsh word, or a selfish hurtful act.
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I remember during college-dorm-room debates, we would talk about whether you would jump in front of a bullet to save the president, or give up your seat in the lifeboat to save an old lady while knowing you will drown, or various other “would you” scenerios.
When we became parents my spouse and I noticed how, without any hesitation or a moments thought, we both knew we would give our lives to save our children. That’s probably in our DNA and nothing special. And that’s actually an easier question than most parenting issues.
Would you move to a new town becuase your child is unhappy in school? Would you switch from a job you love to a job you hate in order to have a little more time at home? Would you uproot your family so that a child can get access to special training? What about impact on siblings? Who gets the last piece of cake? etc., etc.
Jumping in front of the run-away car is the easy stuff.
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8 year old and I have been sick all week, so I have quite a bit of brain fog at the moment. Parenting is sleeping on the couch next to your kid who fell asleep on the living room floor so that when he raises his head in the middle of the night he knows he isn’t alone, knowing that it dramatically increases your chances of getting sick yourself.
I’m going to defend the Deepika character’s decision not to try and escape and lead a calm life. The first 3 years are the most important years when it comes to creating attachments; had pregnant Deepika tried to escape jail she would have had her child probably without medical care increasing the chances that both the child and she could have died. She may have had to leave the child with unkown people while she tried to find food or money. She would always be looking over her shoulder scared of being arrested, and that fear would seep into the child. Her inability to be there consistently for the child financially and with the basics could affect their actual bonding and the attachments that the child then creates with other people throughout his life. So from my persepective her choosing to stay at the jail and give the child a solid 5 years of love and protection was undoubtedly the best for the kid. In this case enlongating her life may not have been what was best for her child.
My brain fog is too thick to remember the other movies referenced, and while I WOULD NOT let my child walk out to deliver something to a bunch of men with guns pointed at her (though I might IF I knew that the man in charge was actually on our side) I will say the instantaneous vs long term health of a child is something most parents really struggle with. Your child will be happier in the moment if you give them candy, they will have warm feelings towards you if you give them candy, they are more likely to get cavities if you give them candy, their behavior may become crazy if you give them candy, candy is NOT good for their health. Do you never give them candy? I thought Jawan did a great job with the parent child role, but it was the role as a part of society as a whole, not so much that intense personal bond, really the movie was about how society affects and breaks the bonds that should be….
In a couple days I’ll remember the other movies refenced so then I can actually compare them. Right now I just have a knee jerk reaction to defend Jawan.
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My Mom used to smoosh into bed with me in this situation. And now that I am an Adult Sized Person, I have no idea how she fit in a child’s bed with a child already in it. But it was certainly safe and cozy feeling!
You bring up a really good point about being a good parent and how it relates to being a good citizen. I certainly know parents who feel deeply that going to protests and participating in politics is their duty as parents, is an act of love to help their children. And in terms of school politics, OH BOY does that turn into a hotbed of parental emotion quickly! There’s a family story of a very radical aunt I have who routinely went to aggressive protests. And then she had a baby and the first protest post-baby, as soon as the police showed up she instinctively got out of there. She could no longer afford to be arrested to prove a point, because she had a baby at home. Although now the baby is all grown up and she is back to being arrested. Which is your thing about Dips puting the early years above later years in importance in a strong bond.
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Oh, in talking about cars. Once when the 14 year old was about 7, we were waiting on the curb to cross at a cross walk on a busy street with a lot of giant trucks on it. I took my child’s hand and he IMMEDIATELY stepped out onto the street RIGHT IN FRONT of a Mac Truck! The truck driver saw him and moved over so that it didn’t hit him before I could yank him back. My child felt so safe with his hand in mine he assumed no harm would ever come to him… So was I good parent for providing my kid with that sense of security, or a lousy parent because that sense of security almost got him killed?
Or is the kid and not always the parent? Perhaps my A+ grade getting perfect child is actually a little clueless when it comes to the world around him? When he learns to drive we’re teaching him on the stick shift so that he is forced to REALLY pay attention.
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Do you really think driving stick increases attention? I would have assumed that especially in a beginner, it might take attention away from the actual traffic. On the other hand, you might get a little more attuned to your car’s speed driving stick.
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I am pro teaching him to drive stick! It’s like a superpower, and I don’t have it, and I think it would be supercool if he did. Drive stick and speak Spanish, two basic practical skills in America that I do not have.
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For me driving a stick shift really makes me pay attention to my speed and stopping is easier than on an automatic
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I had a tire blowout a couple of years ago on the highway, but because I was driving a stick shift I was able to just downshift and pull over to the side. No swerving no crashing. Of course the fact that the car was old and couldn’t go much faster than 55 mph probably helped.
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One of my best friends was a TERRIBLE driver. Like so bad we were all scared at 16 to get in a car with her (this was back in the old days when teens were allowed to drive other teens around, which they aren’t allowed to do in California anymore!). Anyway, she got in a car crash! Her car was totalled and the next car her family got her was a stick shift. And she became a good driver! One could say it was because of the crash but as I am so close to this person I think it was more that the regular driving was so easy it was hard for her to stay focused on it. But with stick, constantly paying attention to the RPMs etc, driving was no longer easy, and it took her full attention. Therefore I think sticks make certain people better drivers.
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Continuing this theory, this is why I never use cruise control. I need the slight stimulation of keeping a regular speed in order to stay focused on everything else with driving, especially when I am doing long boring highway drives.
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I agree completely!
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I vote, better to feel safe and take crazy chances! He’s gonna take chances anyway, at least this way he feels good about it.
Everytime my teenage Mom and Uncle would leave to go driving, my grandmother would yell after them “Remember, Driving is a Privilage and Not a Right!” So, you can try that.
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This is such a tough topic for me as a parent. I almost refrained from commenting because I am worried this is going to sound selfish but here goes. I did take on a new job right after my maternity leave ended with Baby SRK and was traveling when he was 3 to 4 months old. I got lots of questions from primarily men asking me who was with my child. 🙄 Without even getting into the ridiculously sexist connotations of that statement, it was unfathomable for people that I was able to travel and take on a potentially high stress job away from my small child. While they didn’t say it outright, for many it was selfish. Husband and I also leave our child with a babysitter for 2 hours every weekend to go workout and have breakfast together. Another thing that looks “selfish.” And I guess for a while I did feel guilty because the world wanted me to feel that way, or maybe I felt guilty that I wasn’t feeling guilty about these decisions. And it was because of “I” statements.
I am a better mother and fully present for my child when I am fullfilled in other aspects of my life. I don’t want to make my children my sole focus to the point that I lose myself and then end up either resenting them or projecting all my unfulfilled wishes onto them.
I get that most parents might not feel that way. But I know myself, I need my alone time. I need time with my husband. I like my job and take pride in being good at it and unapologetically ambitious. And yet, this is really hard to explain because it is not “expected” from a parent and especially not a woman or a mother. But to me, I hope, that doesn’t make me a bad mother.
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Of course it doesn’t make you a bad mother! The only thing that would make you a bad mother is if you stopped worrying about being a bad mother. If you see what I mean? To always have that baseline assumption that your kids are important and should be considered in your life, that’s the thing I think of every parent having and am stunned and alarmed when I see/hear of parents who are somehow missing that element. If you made yourself and your child miserable by staying home so society would approve of you as a “good” mother, that would be a worse thing to do. Doing what makes sense for yourself and your family above all is all that matters.
I should have put in this post that I know no one on DCIB is a bad parent because if you were, DCIB wouldn’t make sense to you. Can you imagine talking about toxic patriarchy and ACTUALLY TAKING SERIOUSLY arguments about Family Honor and What Will People Say versus the happiness of your child? I think it’s a fairly steady strand in DCIB discussions, our instinctive “wait, why do you care what society thinks if your kid is miserable?” reaction to many MANY standard Indian film plots. Especially when the film tries to position this as “understandable” parenting, rather than not right.
One final thing, gender roles are stupid. If you are a father and you say “no, I can’t do [work thing] because I miss my kids”, you run the risk of being made fun of and considered weak and not committed and blah blah. And if you are a mother and say “yes, I can do work thing” everyone immediately starts judging you as a bad parent without knowing any context!!!! And both sides are equally unfair.
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Nothing you wrote here sounds like a “bad mother”.
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It’s not like you left your baby too raise himself. As long as a baby is cared for, that’s all that matters, doesn’t need to be specifically you spending doing it 24×7… Not to mention that’s a recipe for burnout / probably can’t be fully present without support
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Loved reading everyone’s perspectives! This really is a thinky post for me because I’ve been thinking about parenthood lately. As someone who is not a parent but hopes to be one in the future, I worry about being a good parent. Things like how much does the instinct to care for and protect the child at all costs come naturally when you give birth and how much is it a conscious decision? If it’s a biological thing then will I be able to feel the same if I adopt? I don’t know if these come across as immature thoughts to all the parents out here, but I feel I need to be clear on these things if I decide to become one.
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Yes! Margaret does such a nice job with the thinky posts. I love discussing these topics even if it can be a bit scary.
Just the fact that you are thinking about these things is amazing!
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As someone who is also not a parent, I feel uniquely qualified to answer this. I have experienced being put in charge of a child for some amount of time, and I’ve discovered that instinct kicks in immediately and grows the longer I am responsible for them. For instance, someone asking me to take their child to the bathroom for them, I’m in charge for 10 minutes tops, but I am already worried about making sure doors don’t swing shut on their little fingers, and that they feel safe asking me questions etc. etc. And then one of my little kiddos in my Sunday school class, who I was in charge of for 45 minutes once a week, she had a teacher who didn’t like her and I was ready to go to sue the school district if needed.
So I think, if I have that instinct so quickly and so easily with any child, then if I were to become a parent that instinct would kick in and within 24 hours of being FULLY responsible for a child, it would become an unshakable part of me. Or perhaps, it is just being handed a child and told “this is your child, you are a parent” which triggers all those protective loving instincts in one huge rush?
And I also suspect that if you are one of the few people who are NOT capable of that instinct, you wouldn’t have it while being in charge of a child for 10 minutes either. You would find it a hassle and just plow through it as fast as possible and not treat the responsibility as any different than moving a box from place to place.
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Yes, some people don’t have it. They just keep looking at it as what is their duty and are not really present with the child. It causes a different kind of deep hurt, the emotional cruelty.
I remember when I was a teenager, a cousin’s child was being obnoxious and pulling something in my hand. Not wanting to get into it, I just let go so he can have the thing. He fell over backwards and his grandmother was telling me how because of me he had fallen… Coz of the force he was putting into pulling something and how I didn’t see that letting go will mean he will fall back.
I mean there are his parents and many other adults around, I was not baby sitting him. Why was supposed to be the care giver?!?
I was really sorry and I didn’t want to hurt him but to be blamed like this was just another extension of how I was not allowed to be a person in my large dysfunctional family.
Dunno why I wanted to tell that story… I guess an example of – it’s not just about intention but also the capacity one has. Eg someone who received awful parenting may have all the good intentions but unless they did their own healing, it will be intolerable to be present with and attuned with the child, will make them a dysfunctional parent. How trauma continues generation after generation.
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I can definitely also assure you that it doesn’t take the biological connection. I always say that my genes let themselves be fooled so easily. I would do anything for both the son my wife gave birth to and the foster daughter who joined our family at half a year old. The hormones just kicked in. In the case of our daughter, I still remember the moment when I was carrying her in a wrap and she lay down her little head on my chest and fell asleep – that absolute trust and dependence made her a part of me right then.
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I completely agree with Eva-E that you do not need a biological connection for the parental hormones to kick in. I happen to have two biological children, children I wanted for years and years and tried very hard to have, and yet, I did not feel any real connection to them while I was pregnant. Enough so that it made me feel really guilty. And yet, as soon as they were born, something kicked in and I knew I would do anything for them.
I felt especially guilty when I was pregnant with my second child and all I could think about was my oldest and his feelings. I didn’t feel any connection with my unborn child again.
When I finally spoke to my husband about this, this is what he said, “that’s because Mr. Toddles is who you know. You were worried about not feeling any connection with him when you were pregnant and now look how worried you are about him. I promise you that you will feel the same with the second. And if you don’t right away, that’s okay also. Postpartum hormones, anxiety, depression sucks and you might need to get better mentally first, but I am not worried.” And he was right. Something about her being in my arms kicked in those parental hormones. All this is to say, I firmly believe my parental hormones are tied to holding a child, any child — biological or not.
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My story was different. I felt connection with my son when I was pregnant, but when he was born I was so overwhelmed I felt nothing. I felt guilty because you hear all those stories how the mothers feel conection from the very first second, and I was there thinking “whose baby is this?”. I was affraid to hold him or change the diaper, he didn’t want to drink milk (or I was holding him in a wrong way?). It was so hard! Only few weeks later I had this revelation: “Man, we are a family of three! He is my son and is here to stay.” I’m so slow sometimes.
Even later from time to time I was wondering if I’m a good mother, because I’m a stoic person and not very affectionate. But then, when my son was bullied I discovered reservoirs of emotions and anger inside me I never knew I’m capable of. I felt like those heroines in old Indian movies who become godness Kali in the climax. I was surprised by the force of those emotions.
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Thank you for sharing such a deeply personal anecdote, Angie! I just want you to know that everything you were feeling is very very normal. You are an amazing mother! I know this from just talking to you on this forum and everything you have mentioned about your son.
I was ready to not feel any connection to my kids when they were born and absolutely prepared to be in the throws of post-partum depression/anxiety and while I was pleasantly surprised when I was not, I easily imagine a scenario where I felt everything you did. On the other hand, while I didn’t experience what you did when my kids were first born, I did go through a very challenging phase when my son was 15-18 months. For some reason I had a really really hard connecting with him. He was really needy (he was a toddler so that makes sense) and I was just beyond frustrated. I remember one time when I put him safely in his room and closed the door just screamed and cried because I just couldn’t take it anymore. Of course, then the mom guilt kicks in and I felt terrible. All this is to say that there is no book on parenting or one right way to parent. We are all doing out best.
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All you have to do to be an awesome mother is that first step when you put him in his room. So long as he is safe, anything you do on the other side of the door doesn’t matter.
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Exactly!!!!
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I’m so sorry Angie, that sucks. I’m glad it only lasted a few weeks, I know for some mothers it can be even longer than that.
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