Bahubali 2 Scene By Scene Part 17: The Sun Rises in the West

That was the line, wasn’t it?  To get Ramya to change would be like getting the sun to rise in the West?  Well, it happens here!  And it is so sad, that I am going to be getting through this section considerably faster than the previous parts, just to get it over with. (part 16 here, you can go back from there)

Previously in Bahubali 2, Prabhas and Anushka were banished from the kingdom of Mahishmati by his mother, the Queen, Ramya.  His brother, the King, Rana, was still not satisfied.  Because he saw that even in banishment, living in a small remote stoneworkers village, Prabhas was making the people love him, and building up a following.  And so Rana decided the only solution was to kill him, and the only way to make that happen, was if Ramya ordered it to be done.  Now, how to make her do it?

 

At the end of the “Dandaalayyaa” song, Prabhas finally feels his baby kick, one evening while the little village is gathered around a fire (I think Anushka may be getting some kind of pregnancy blessing), and in his joy, he pulls out a flute and begins to play.  Subbaraju is watching from the crowd, enjoying Prabhas’ joy and this family moment, when he notices a strange man slowly moving through it, holding a knife.  Subbaraju tries to follow him through the crowd, but before he can reach him, the man gets spooked and takes off.  Subbaraju follows him.  He overhears him talking to Rana, who ordered the assasination.  And then he hears Nassar protest to Rana, that it should be enough Prabhas is banished, there is no need to kill him.  Rana disagrees and storms off, and then Nassar spots Subarajju.  He calls him over and tells him that he, Nassar, is ashamed of his own son, Rana has lost his mind, the only way to save Prabhas is for Nassar to help Subbarajju sneak into the palace through secret entrances only royalty know, and kill him while he sleeps.  Subarajju agrees, and all seems well, Nassar lets him in, along with some fighting men, but it was a trap.  The men are surrounded and promptly killed, and Rana stabs Subarajju.  Subarajju grasps the knife Prabhas 1 gave him and manages to fight back, before dying.  Ramya arrives, to be shown the evidence, her son’s dead brother-in-law in her other sons chamber, a scar from the fight on Rana’s face (a scar he gave himself which we still see in the present day), and dead men around the room, evidence of a battle.  Most damning of all, the secret passageway is open, indicating a royal family member must have helped.

I am so tempted to leave it at that and finish off this whole part in like two paragraphs and then get back to the battle!  But no, that would be wrong, probably someone here is a masochist who actually wants to talk about this section and I should help get the conversation going.  So, okay, I will talk about exactly why this is so hard to watch.

Let’s go back to the beginning.  It doesn’t start during the day at some formal event, it starts around a fire in the evening.  With Prabhas and Anushka interacting not as a royal couple in disgrace, or even as noble Kshatriyas, but just as a husband and wife expecting their first child.  And Subbaraju is seeing in them not a noble king and his queen, but his best friend and his cousin.  His face, in that brief moment when we first see it, has a look of love on it.  And so his instinct to follow and protect is not because he is a faithful subject, but because he loves them.

Image result for subbaraju in mirchi

(You know he also co-starred with them in Mirchi?  At least Prabhas, not sure if he had any scenes with Anushka)

That is the twisted thing Rana saw at the baby shower.  That Subbaraju is a good strong man, who really loves this couple, not in an abstract way, but as people he knows.  It’s a virtue, a beautiful virtue, which Rana decides to twist and destroy.  And he does it because he knows this virtue is something Ramya cannot understand and will distrust.  Ramya assumes any connection must be formal, that is her issue with her relationship with her sons, she keeps trying to draw a line between the personal and the formal relationship.  But Subbaraju and Prabhas are the same in that they can let those lines blur without difficulty.  If Kuntala and Mahishmati had gone to war, for instance, Ramya would have sent a formal message as Queen of Mahishmati, even if she had known and loved the rulers for years.  If Prabhas and Subbaraju were leaders, Prabhas would have gone personally, embraced Subbaraju, told him he loved him, and asked what the problem was.

And this attitude, of unquestioning love, is why Subbaraju chases after the assassin, and why he agrees to kill Rana in return.  Someone else might have asked Prabhas 1’s permission, or advice, or warned him.  But Subbaraju knows him well enough to know that learning of Rana’s hatred would hurt him, and that he would sacrifice himself rather than let himself be defended.  And so Subbaraju does the most loving thing he can, and keeps it all to himself.

In the scene he overhears between Rana and Nassar, we get to admire the acting.  Neither actor is terribly subtle in this film in general.  But they aren’t supposed to be, they are supposed to talk and move and act in this way.  And in this scene, it is ever so slightly even more so.  And while their gestures are dramatic as always, they are slightly different gestures.  Nassar is aggressively cringing in a way he never has before, Rana is striding around and talking about his feelings in a way he almost never does.  Something feels slightly off, even beyond the content.  Although the content makes no sense since Nassar has been pushing for murder this whole film, why is he against it now?

The tragedy of Subbaraju’s death is how inevitable it is, and how he resists that.  He fights bravely, but he can’t possibly win.  He could have given up, stopped fighting, accepted his fate.  But his heart is too big to allow for that, he has to keep fighting to the bitter end.  That is the spirit that Prabhas recognized in him back in Kuntala, what they share, when it gets down to it they will never stop fighting for the ones they love.

Image result for subbaraju in bahubali

And none of it matters.  His last brave fight, his noble spirit, it’s all pointless.  He could have simply accepted his fate and let them kill him, and the end result would be exactly the same.  Once he is dead, he is dead, his body is there as evidence of treachery, and his spirit is gone, and forgotten.

But at least this death, this unjust death, does leave a scar on Rana.  A scar both physical and internal.  This is the first time he truly crosses a line.  Everything else could be seen as wishful thinking, or justified by a belief that it is better for the kingdom.  But there is no justification for killing a brave soul like Subbaraju.  Rana has turned wrong, not just bad, but wrong, diseased, crooked.  And the scar on his face shows the scar on his soul.  The self-inflicted scar, in both cases.  Prabhas did nothing to make Rana hate him, it was Rana’s internal insecurity that lead him down this path.

And even the manner of scarring shows that.  He uses Prabhas’ knife, but it is not wielded by Prabhas, but rather the knife he had given to Subbaraju.  Rana sees it as a matter between them, but that is only the case if you ignore Subbaraju, see him as merely a tool of Prabhas, not as his own person who loves Prabhas for his own reasons.  Just as the people love him, not because Prabhas has forced them to, but just because they do.  And Rana sees that as a constant threat, as something that comes directly from Prabhas.

And then Ramya arrives and is shown the evidence.  The brilliance of this is that, like all the best lies, it is based on truth.  It looks like Subaraju came into the chamber to kill Rana while he slept, bringing with him soldiers from Kuntala who were killed by Mahishmati guards, because that is exactly what happened.  There is no need for artifice.  Rana’s face is slashed by the knife Prabhas gave Subaraju, because it was (only it was Rana’s hand that did it to himself).  And Subaraju came through the secret passage, which implies the help of a member of the royal family, because he was helped by a member of the royal family.

This is how you get “the sun to rise in the West”.  You reverse north and south, making the West appear to be the East.  Ramya orders Prabhas’ death, because that is the right and just punishment for someone who coldbloodedly plans the death of their rival for the throne.  But she doesn’t know that she is ordering the death of the wrong brother.

Image result for upside down map

On my first watch I missed the little bit of set-up we get here.  There is a tiny conversation in which Rana and Ramya and Nassar work out the whys and wherefores.  It has to be done, but in such a way that Rana will not be blamed.  They will need a third party to take responsibility, a set-up.  And they will need Kattappa to carry it out.  And Kattappa agrees.

Can we take a moment here to look at Kattappa?  He is the “slave”, but if you think about it, he is also the one who decides who should rule and who should not.  When Ramya took the throne (the regent’s throne, but still a throne), she had nothing.  The nobles were about to attack her.  Until she called on Kattappa, and his defense of her is what proved her power, what made her Queen.  She has no legitimate right to this position, less right than her husband certainly.  And yet she dictates everything in the kingdom after that moment.  Kattappa is what tipped the scales.

Now, Kattappa has to be the one to to change things again, to remove Prabhas 1 from the line of succession.  But, notice, he will also be the one to twice confirm Prabhas 2 as the real ruler.  And as Kattappa goes, so goes Mahishmati.

Image result for kattappa baby

Well, that was a nice little break, on with the sad!  Just to make us as miserable as possible, we go from this dark planning of Prabhas 1’s doom, to a scene of him not being royal, not being a threat, not being anything but alive and human.  He is pacing outside the hut while the men sit around and tell him that his baby will be a strong son.  Prabhas the actor plays this moment so well.  Excitement and happiness and nerves are all mixed up on his face.  There is no strong noble judgement, or above-it-all royalty here, he is just as human as any other father about to have their first child.  And so alive!  Striding around, smiling and a little scared, you can feel the power in him, the potential, the health.

This is another way that the “rising in the West” metaphor is strong.  It’s not just an impossibility, it’s unnatural, wrong.  This whole sequence doesn’t just feel sad, but kind of stomach turning.  There’s an instinctive revulsion to the idea of this strong happy healthy man being destroyed, to a mother killing her son, to a man being ordered to kill someone he loves against his will, to a father never seeing his baby, to a wife losing her husband when she needs him most, and finally to a king and a warrior being stabbed in the back.

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Okay, I think originally this was just one part of a very long post.  But then I started thinking, that would be so hard to comment on, and I love all your comments!  So instead I am breaking it up into a series of short posts so the conversation is a bit easier to follow.  Look for the next bit to go up in a few hours.  And, obviously, feel free to jump back and forth between these posts, and all the others, I get a notice for every comment, and anyone can see the newest ones in the New Comments feed on the home page.

 

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41 thoughts on “Bahubali 2 Scene By Scene Part 17: The Sun Rises in the West

  1. No Margaret, Those weren’t the exact words.

    Nasser says the Sun doesn’t rise in the west. Rana says that he could make the Sun set in the East itself, meaning Bahubali’s end.

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  2. I think you should also point out that Kumara Varma (Subbaraju) resists the idea of killing Bhalladeva (Ran) quite a bit. He is shocked not merely at the idea of killing someone for no reason (not in battle, for instance), that too, a reigning king, and worst of all, that he is being asked to kill a son by his own father. From your summary above, someone who hasn’t seen the film could conclude that Nasser asked him to kill Rana, and he said, “OK!” He resists quite a bit, and has to be talked into it a lot by Nasser.

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    • And by the looks of things, Nasser did such a brilliant job of convincing Subbaraju that he hesitates when he sees Rana holding a knife to Nasser’s throat. He thinks that Rana was out to kill Nasser and he wasn’t sure what to do about that.

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    • Good point! As I said, I am zipping through this section much much faster, picking and choosing what to discuss and where to look in detail. So I am counting on the commentators to bring up additional points and expand the discussion.

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  3. Margaret,

    Bijala is the original diseased mind (recall how Katappa told him to his face that at the start of B2). He paid attention to Kumara Verma saying that with the sword given by Bahu and his inspiring words, even a cat would become a lion. Kumaraa Verma was a Kuntala prince – Kuntala that in Ramya’s eyes had an axe to grind with Mahishmati. Kumara Verma was also not familiar with the dynamics between the royalty of Mahishmati. Just as getting Sivagami to order the death of Bahu would have been impossible, Bijala wanting his son dead was impossible. But Kumara Verma wouldn’t know that. Besides he has been the supporting force for Devasena and Bahu and accompanied them when they were exiled. Bhalla says he could make the impossible possible but Bijala would have helped pick Kumara Verma to be the pawn. The father suggests murdering the mother, the son tucks it away and reuses the thought to kill his brother. His father’s thought told Bhalla it is ok to cross that line.

    When they speak of killing Bahu, Sivagami goes into protect Mahishmati mode as the father and son dup expected. I think they anticipated her calling in Katappa just as she did all those years ago. Having him do the deed would get them revenge for when he spoke back to Bijala at the start of the movie. Use the loyalty he was so proud of and turn it against him, to shame him.

    Katappa was a grown man by the time Bahu came along. Slavery and rules for slaves would have been too deeply ingrained in him by then. So though he appreciates gestures from Bahu and Devasena he never speaks up. Until he sees how that very bond and loyalty has been used against him by Bhalla. Remember how he actually proposes to sneak Devasena away in the night in B1. Katappa in his original form before he killed Bahu would have never contemplated it.

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    • -I’m still writing the section on the final moments, Rana showing up, and Kattappa confronting Ramya, and then Rana confirming it. Anyway, I am really interested in the idea of Nassar being the one who makes all the terrible suggestions until those moments, when suddenly we see that Rana wasn’t just convinced by his father, but had his own nastiness inside him.

      -I was waiting for that opening scene to come back and I couldn’t see how it had. But you are right, this is where it comes back! If Kattappa thinks it is a noble thing to blindly serve Ramya, then they will show him how it can be ignoble.

      -I felt like he only proposed helping Devasena away because Rana had sort of given permission in the previous scene. But it was only a sort of kind of permission, Kattappa was stretching a point to try to use it as an excuse. The same way in this sequence, he won’t allow himself to actively avoid orders, but he will try everything he can to encourage Prabhas 1 to get away before he has to carry them out.

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      • – the fact that nassar is evil is well known. It’s rana’s inner evilness that is well hidden from everyone. In bahubali-the lost legends, (a new series on Amazon prime that deals with events that happened before the commencement of both the movies) there is a scene in which Rana explains why he always praises bahubali in front of everybody. He tells his friend that his father had been debited the throne because people are scared of him, scared of his evilness. He doesn’t want people to know how truly evil he really is and that he hides it behind a mask. Then saying so he kills his friend because he now knew the truth about him.

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        • I like that insight into Rana’s thought process, but I don’t know if I like him killing his friend. I saw him as more kind of neutral until his jealousy for Prabhas 1 makes him more and more evil.

          On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:37 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:

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  4. I am one of the masochists and actually was awed with the sequence of events that led to that moment.

    Katappa is “accused” of being a traitor. That is the bait. But unexpectedly the Kalakeyas attack. Fighting them leaves Bahu wounded and exhausted. What if they had not shown up?
    When Katappa beseeches and begs Bahu to leave he simply tells him you promised my wife to hold her baby, I promised her I would bring you safe so sit quiet and let me do my job. Katappa is distraught and still insists Bahu leave to which Bahu’s reply about how with Katappa around there was no one who could harm Bahu. My heart went out to Katappa in that moment. A difficult task just became so much harder. 2 people who have so much love, affection and respect for each other. All that was about to be shattered and mutilated for the power and greed of one perosn.
    Bahu literally handed him the sword to do what he had been bid in that familiarity of fighting together they had developed over the years. Bahu is initially confused who could have and when he turns he is stunned near speechless but when Katappa simple says royal decree with his head bowed things became so clear to Bahu in that moment about just how rotten things were. His voice when he next speaks is softer , there is no anger and he asks Katappa to protect that one lady whom they both have had so much affection for all these years, especially since Bahu would now not be around. Devasena and his child had Kuntala (he had no way of knowing about Kumar Verma or the fate to soon befall Kuntala). And then he has anger or rather authority when he demands his sword. He deserves to die a warrior would in battle.
    And the next scene when Bhalla emerges with the shadow the imaging was brilliant, a normal king but with a perception of being larger than life (his huge shadow against the flames). He desecrates his brother’s dead body, giving himself the illusion that he killed him, the axe in hand and those little hacks. Trying to steal glory from his brother and even then failing. Not bothering that Katappa heard all and would tell Sivagami. It was too late. He had teh throne and his brother was no longer around. He had it all. Making it all the sweeter when it was all again snatched away from him in short order.

    – I saw that Kuntala war scene deleted scene, I guessed it would have been an echo of the B1 war when Sivagami upon being insulted asks her sons to go bring the vile man’s head whereas Devasena simply punishes him herself.

    – ALso happened across a deleted scenes / alternative scenes discussion with Rajamouli where he speas fo how the Dheevara sequence and the Shivudu returning to Mahishmati sequence were conceived differently and due to other considerations xecuted differently in the movie.)

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  5. – The Subbaraju scene just made me sad- like you said, Nasser and Rana are so over the top that you want to scream, “It’s a trap, you fool!” But this would never occur to Subbaraju, from straightforward Kuntala and its happily blended royal family. And as horrible as it is, Rana symbolically has to kill his foil – the living embodiment of what he could have if he treated Prabhas as a brother- to show that he has crossed the line of no return.

    – Subbaraju is in Mirchi, but you’re right, he doesn’t interact with Anushka at all. And what’s funny is that he’s in Billa, too, where he’s Anushka’s dead brother(and never meets good Prabhas, but gets murdered by evil Prabhas) – it’s like the three of them were working through every possible combination in this movie!

    – One thing I notice about how Ramya plays it is that she seems so disassociated from it, and immediately is the one to bring up what the commoners will think. It’s as though she has to focus on the political, the abstract, instead of the personal, but again her very reason for ordering the death is the fact that her son was wounded. Logically speaking, plots are very much not Prabhas’ style, and she should have known that even thinking impersonally about the situation!

    – And the awful Kattappa scene! Where he refused and then agrees just so Ramya won’t have to dirty her hands! First off thus is ridiculous, she is responsible either way and physically doing it doesn’t change anything. Second of all, I think it would be worth the gamble to see if having to do it herself would have shocked Ramya out if it. And there’s a pretty clear subtext that Kattappa is the only one who could Prabhas l, either in terms of strength or trust. And fine, Kattappa is priotizing Ramya over Prabhas, but what’s to stop him from at least saying he will bring Prabhas to a discreet (if she’s worried about public outrage from a trial) meeting with the agreement that if Prabhas is found to be guilty, Kattappa will kill him at that time. Because even in the previous scene where Kattappa kills for Ramya, it’s all above ground, Ramya has those against her stand apart and when they are killed, they know exactly why., instead of this shady assasination. I just- can’t believe Kattappa just rolls with it.

    – Excellent point on Prabhas being so human in the scene right before he dies-and even more depressingly, in a historical context, Anushka would probably be considered to be in greater danger (after all, Prabhas’ biological mother died in childbirth) . But then contradicting that, I’m just really happy with how labor is portrayed here – it’s not this scary, screaming awful thing, but instead is unpleasant but Anushka is surrounded by people who care about her (midwife extra, her handmaids) and is still able to move and talk within reason.

    – Fun fact: my theory from the first movie was that Prabhas was going to magnanimously offer to die for whatever reason, to tell Kattappa to kill him, but honestly, by this scene even I could see I had been wrong. As good as Prabhas is, he had too much to live for, there is no way he would have agreed to that (if Kattappa had been honest and told him what was really going on!). On that note, I’m going to go prepare myself for the following really sad posts!

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    • -Yes! Subbaraju is everything that could be good about this situation. Heck, he even went from second-in-line to heir, thanks to Anushka’s marriage, just like Rana did. And Rana kills every possible good within himself.

      -I wonder if it’s a height thing? I’m still thinking about some interview or something I saw where Rana talked about how he was cast because he was tall enough to play opposite Prabhas. And so is Subbaraju. Maybe, when looking at the headshots of 20 random young actors to play the friend-of-hero type role, they picked someone who was tall enough to easily share a frame with Prabhas. And Anushka, who is also extra tall! Anyway, he was amazing in this movie, and I hope it gets him bigger and better roles in future.

      -This goes back to the general problem with Ramya’s character. She is comfortable with her role as head of the kingdom, but becomes uncomfortable as soon as her motherhood comes into play. And ends up ignoring gut instincts, because she is afraid it is her motherly feelings bringing them up. different from the motherly guilt that she is always dealing with, which consistantly steers her wrong.

      -But then, that initial confrontation was 26 years ago. How many times has Kattappa been ordered to kill like this in the years since? We don’t know. Nassar and Rana seem fairly sure that this is a possibility, and Ramya seems familiar with the concerns and methods. It takes a lot to get her to this point, and she is so completely fooled thanks to it involving family, so I think we can be sure that any previous killings were justified and wise and for the good of the kingdom. But it is still possible that Kattappa would have been familiar with the manner of the orders, just thrown by the subject of them. But still, you are right, he could have spoke up!

      -One of my favorite things in the section after the section after this one (so, look for it something tonight), is how Anushka does NOT jsut magically leap up and recover from childbirth. It’s even fairly clear exactly what is going on, I assume she still hadn’t had the afterbirth, which is why she is hunched over and kind of clutching her stomach. There’s no elaborate explanation for why Prabhas 2 and Ramya escaped and she didn’t, it’s simple and logical, she just had birth, she handed the newborn off to be taken to safety to someone who could move more easily, but she herself wasn’t going to be up for any long marches any time soon. Although with great effort she could still walk on her own, like you say it isn’t super over the top.

      -I had the same theory!!! But after watching this film, you can see he would never have done that. On the personal level, there was so much more he wanted from life. And on the public level, it would have taken a lot for him to believe that it was better for Mahishmati and its people for him to die. And so long as he thought he could serve them by living, that is what he would do.

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      • Rana was chosen (according to him and Rajamouli) because he is taller than Prabhas (by an inch or two). Rajamouli always likes his villains to be bigger than his heroes. That’s why Rana had to put on more weight, too, so he could be broader as well as taller than Prabhas. Subbaraju (according to an interview I just saw with him), is the tallest of the three, topping Rana by about half an inch.

        Yes, I’m sure their respective heights were a consideration, but first would be their acting capabilities, and Subbaraju has a long established track record on that.

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        • I think Rajamouli does that in all his films – makes sure that the actors are on equal footing on screen. He did that with Prabhas in Chattrapathi too, if I remember right.

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        • I’ve only seen Subbaraju in Mirchi (and I guess Billa, although I have no memory of him), which were fairly small parts compared to this one. Has he done other roles of similar size to this?

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          • His role in Mirchi is comparable to this, I think. He has two very pivotal actions, one in the climax.

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          • Subbaraju’s mostly been seen in small parts like the one in Mirchi in the big budget action movies. He’s a favorite of Puri Jagannadh so you should have seen him in movies like Pokiri, Bujjigadu, and Amma Nanna O Tamil Ammayi. His biggest role as far as I know has been a role in Leader which was actually Rana’s debut film. He got a lot of appreciation for that role. Another role that I really liked him in was in a Puri Jagannadh movie called Neninthe where he plays a movie star.

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      • Since Subbaraju is the queen’s brother in Kunthala, does he actually become the heir? Wouldn’t that be someone from the king’s line?

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        • I assumed he was the heir because he was at all the family events, and the formal events (like the coronation). Maybe the Queen is related to the royal family in some way? So Subbaraju is living in the palace both as her relative, and as a member of the royal family?

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        • My headcanon is that Anushka was always the heir, but if she married out, the plan was for Subbaraju to be adopted as next heir, which is why they were kind of pushing Anushka marrying him as the neatest solution. (Though for all we know, the king and queen of Kuntala have like 7-8 kids in a nursery somewhere that we never see! But that’s unlikely given Anushka’s title)

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          • I don’t understand this banishment! Since they went to live with Most Exciting Life Ever extra woman, I assume they were still within the boundaries of Mahishmati. And the phrasing of the cry before “Dandaallayyaa” was something like, “A God coming to live with us”, right? Which makes it seem like they were just banished from royal life, not from the whole kingdom.

            If that is the case, I could see Prabhas 1 thinking it would go against his vow to leave Mahishmati, since he had sworn to serve and protect its citizens. It also is an interesting change to the Ramayana story, if I am remembering correctly, everyone was super sad because Ram was leaving and wanted to go with him, it wasn’t just that he wasn’t going to rule, it was that they were missing his presence. Whereas in this case, they lost the ruling but gained his presence.

            On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:13 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:

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          • Oh no no, you make perfect sense. I don’t see it as banishment either. That was just me ranting after reliving the emotions of the death scene. Poor Prabhas1.😢

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          • All this talk of banishment is strangely reminding me of Tezaab. What was up with that? Anil Kapoor kills a bunch of guys to save his sister, and his punishment is “banishment”? So strange!

            I also would have loved a different version of this movie where Prabhas goes off and becomes a hardened mercenary and then has to return and save Anushka’s life, but pretends he doesn’t love her any more because he has fallen so low.

            On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:25 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:

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          • This goes to show that Ramya didn’t know Prabhas1 at all. He seems like the most simplest of characters but is so multi-faceted. Its not just about royalty and nobility but much more. Its a pity that Ramya didn’t realise this about him inspite of being the one responsible for moulding his character into who he was.

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          • I don’t want the King and Queen to have babies! Becuase that would mean they were all brutally killed at some point in the intervening years. Or else turned into literally faceless warriors with no special consideration.

            Wait, in Tamannah’s introduction scene, she learns of the death of one of their band at the hands of the guards. Was that the brother’s son? It was either his “for real” son, or someone who was extra special to their band, I remember Tamannah is kind of hesitant to tell of the death.

            On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:52 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:

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          • I think that the king brother and a few of the people are the only ones spared. Everyone else is killed when Rana burns the whole kingdom down. He is shown to be hugging/herding togther a few people while watching the fire (I think that there are few kids too but I’m not sure). Tamannah relates the death of a member of the group. She says that he was “martyred” but there is no mention of him being related to the king brother.

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          • Oh, Apu, I am right there with you! Actually I’m the one wailing, “why didn’t Ramya just send Prabhas and Anushka to Kuntala instead of making Prabhas army commander? That way, Rana rules in Mahishmati, Prabhas rules in Kuntala (for everyone worried about the commoners in Mahishmati, I am willing to imagine a discreet policy of emigration to Kuntala on their part, leaving Rana with his terrible friends and Kattappa), everyone is happy, NO ONE DIES.)

            – I also imagine though that since Prabhas and Anushka aren’t stupid, their backup plan was to flee to Kuntala if things got back. Hence why they presumably live so close to the border, close enough that Subbaraju can visit regularly and check up on them.

            (Hey, wait a second, why does no one notice that he’s dead? Did they just figure that he’d gone back to Kuntala without telling them?)

            – I honestly don’t get the impression that the king and queen had any kids! My theory about the young rebels who seem to be in the inner circle (Tamannah, her female friend, the boy who cries and gets yelled at, and the boy who died) is that they are the children of Anushka’s ladies in waiting. Which is why the king is so attached to them, because he had watched them grow up, and why the rebels are so bent on saving Anushka, because they know her from their mothers’ stories about her (plus Tamannah’s friend reminds me a lot of Anushka’s senior lady in waiting, the one who gets actual lines)

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          • Now I am picturing Rana wandering around Mahishmati, like that guy who hosts a bad party, thinking “why isn’t anyone fun here? Why do I have to make awkward small talk with Katappa? I’ve got more space and expensive snacks and the big screen TV! Why is everyone hanging out in Kuntala having fun without me?

            I find that one of the saddest parts of the sad part, seeing the children with the king watching the palace burn. I assume that the palace was attacked, and the king (based on the fact that he is in torn royal clothing, rather than armor) didn’t bother fighting back, but rather gathered up all the people he could and got them out. Which fits with the Kuntala concept of royalty, that it is about the people, not the status or position. No purpose to him being a hero and going down fighting a battle he couldn’t win, when he could instead focus on saving the few people he might. And if I am remembering right, it is just the king and the Queen and maybe one other adult, but primarily children. Which means they made the decision that if only a few could be saved, the parents would give the King their children to care for and sacrifice themselves. And that the King made the decision to save as many children as he could, irrespective of their status.

            And fast-forwarding 25 years, that still seems to be what is happening. The older generation has been killed, or imprisoned, or otherwise suffering (Kuntala of the past had fields and civilization, present Kuntala seems to be abandoned and overgrown) but the young people are smuggled into the King’s band of rebels for him to train and take care of. The rebel life is super dangerous, but I wonder if it is seen as “better” than living at the mercy of the army? And I am assuming that the “inner circle” are the ones who joined up the youngest, so they were raised together and by the king, therefore the best warriors and most devoted. Which dovetails with your lady-in-waiting theory, or any other group that was close to the royal family and quick to join the rebellion.

            On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:40 AM, dontcallitbollywood wrote:

            >

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          • @mredlich21, @apu, and @avani yes, yes how I too wish Prabhas 1 and Anushka were in Kuntala post marriage, with Badhra (what is the actor’s name?) and Prabhas 2 falling for Tammannah, Rana and son imprisoning Tamannah and Prabhas 2 coming back to Mahishmathi to free Tammannah…..

            Still cant believe how Ramya went straight from banished from palace to execute Prabhas 1 without going through the banished from Mahishmathi step that I think would have been the more logical thing to do.

            I keep coming back to these Bahubali blog posts. Addicted me!!!

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          • I’m so glad you keep coming back! I do too. I’ve got another Bahubali theme post going up soon, and a fanfic post at some point.

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  6. I’m wondering if it wasn’t just the ideas planted by Nasser and Rana that led to Ramya’s decision to order the killing. In the coronation scene, she has this shocked and apprehensive expression when she looks at Prabhas1 after the vessel filled with turmeric water rolls down the steps. Maybe she also believed that it signified a bad omen and the kingdom and Rana was in danger from Prabhas1. It is not the prime reason guarenteed but maybe she buys into it which makes it easier for her to believe the rest of the plot. She actually had to be shocked out her stupor (a sit were) by Katappa’s accusation. This is probably the first time that Katappa has turned on her and uses her first name too and he also is telling her about her ‘own’ son who she thought she was supposed to be protecting against Prabahs1.

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    • I saw the same thing in the coronation scene, but I saw it as more being afraid of something that she can’t understand, that is bigger than her. The kind of feeling Prabhas had for the people and vice versa is something Ramya never had. And so she saw it as a danger, just because it was different.

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      • Here is something I meant to say several threads back, but it is appropriate here, too, so I will say it here. In the coronation, when the people start stomping and what not, leading to all these omens, including the royal umbrella (chatram) breaking its staff and falling toward Amarendra — everyone stopped at noting that it was symbolically saying Amarendra should be the rightful king. But what is significant to me is what Amarendra does when that umbrella breaks toward him. He grabs it before it can actually fall, and plants it firmly on the throne so that it is once more shading Bhallaladeva (as it should), BUT, since there’s no actual place for it to be hooked into on the throne, it only stays there and upright because Amarendra is holding it up in place. Symbolically, he’s saying that he will always uphold Bhallaladeva as the rightful king, and defend his position as the Commander in Chief. He is saying he’s not being swayed by the people’s adulation at all, but will only do his sworn duty.

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        • Yes! But it also shows how weak Rana’s rule is, only upheld by Prabhas 1’s strong arms. It reminded me of Hum dil De Chuke Sanam, and I am sure other movies I can’t think of at the moment, where the marriage ceremony only goes off because the family forces it, tying the couple together and pushing them around through the ceremony. I think in Hum dil, the tie actually comes undone during the ceremony and aish’s parents have to retie it.

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  7. Hey everyone. Excellent analysis and thinking here.

    I would like to add in Ramya’s brilliance here. She says at some point of time when she orders death that if prabhas1 is murdered directly people and nobles would go into open rebellion. But they want him dead. So who best to do it than kattappa himself. Why? Because people know how close kattappa and prabhas1 are. So obviously when truth comes that kattappa killed prabhas1 people naturally dismiss it as lie or some kind of plot. So that’s first point..
    Second point is that Rana invites a few kalakeya members as an act of revenge against prabhas1 for killing their leader. They know none of them can kill prabhas1 but they can create a myth whereby they can claim that someone killed prabhas1. But to ensure his death, which can only happen at this point only by deception not confrontation, they need most loyal servant who doesn’t speak at all. We all know who is the best for this: kattappa never spoke about Bijjala’s plan to kill Ramya though he implies in the beginning that he can sniff their plans. Here we have a good setup for kattappa to execute crude plan. Rana doesn’t completely trust kattappa here, nor does he trust any body here so he himself ascends down to the place to execute the plans.
    There is another layer of planning here by Rana’s brilliant plan. He always wanted unanimous authority so it’s always in his mind to kill his mother from the day his dad spoke of it. When Ramya is presumed dead that’s what he shouts ” Now I have that Unanimous authority”. How does he seek to achieve this? It’s very interesting to see.
    Rana plans that Ramya is unhappy about prabhas1 and babushka from the beginning so she prohibits kattappa from going to that baby delivery. So apparently she “manipulates” kattappa into attacking prabhas1 with kalakeya people. So she will be charged with abuse of power to harm kingdom and treachery. So he can create a scene where Ramya refuses to bow down and she had to be killed. Even if people come to know about prabhas1 death and blame someone he wouldn’t be the one and even if truth comes out Ramya shouldn’t be there to testify or condemn it. So it’s better if she is out of the way. That is his master plan woven around Ramya plans.
    Palace politics played by Rana is so complicated and genius that prabhas1 fails to see through most of those schemes. People and nobles wouldn’t revolt either with the only authority left and no one to look up to and would be scared to revolt with the macho of Rana on throne.

    On the other hand they create a situation , with Ramya plan that a scene is created where kattappa is caught while smuggling in kalakeya men on Ramya’s orders and is burnt on the spot for treachery. From books we know that kattappa has a brother shivappa who escapes to and supports kalakeya kingdom. So that thickens the plot. When prabhas1 is told this he has every reason to believe for treachery knowing how much he wasnt in the palace anymore and kattappa with his love for prabhas1 might have done something stupid to get caught up in this mess. So he immediately charges to rescue him, and probably convince him and send him back to kingdom.
    But we see doom coming from very far, don’t we?

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  8. Pingback: Bahubali Posts Index – dontcallitbollywood

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